Nolebull813 Week 3 Top 25

[nolebull813]

1. STA (-)

2. Cocoa (+1)

3. Lakeland (+1)

4. Armwood (+1)

5. Venice (+2)

6. AHP (+2)

7. MNW (-1)

8. Miami Central (+1)

9. Chaminade (-7)

10. CCC (-)

11. Mandarin (-)

12. Lake Mary (-)

13. Jones (-)

14. Ely (NR)

15. Buchholz (+3)

16. Cardinal Newman (+5)

17. St Augustine (-3)

18. Norland (-2)

19. Seminole (-4)

20. Choctaw (-1)

21. Bishop Verot (-1)

22. Niceville (+2)

23. Eau Gallie (+2)

24. First Academy (NR)

25. Tampa Bay Tech (NR)

 

Dropped out 

#17 Edgewater

#22 Madison County 

#23 Berkeley Prep 

[nolebull813]

this weeks schedule 

 

1. STA vs Columbus 

2. Cocoa vs IMG

3. Lakeland vs #12 Lake Mary

4. Armwood vs #25 Tampa Bay Tech

5. Venice vs #21 Bishop Verot

6. AHP vs #9 Chaminade 

7. MNW vs Carol City 

8. Miami Central vs BTW

9. Chaminade vs #6 AHP

10. CCC vs Tampa Catholic 

11. Mandarin vs Samdalwood

12. Lake Mary vs #3 Lakeland 

13. Jones vs Evans 

14. Ely vs Stranahan 

15. Buchholz vs Eastside

16. Cardinal Newman vs Benjamin 

17. St Augustine vs Bolles

18. Norland - off 

19. Seminole vs Lyman 

20. Choctaw vs Crestview

21. Bishop Verot vs #5 Venice 

22. Niceville vs Pine Forest 

23. Eau Gallie vs Heritage 

24. First Academy vs Treasure Coast

25. Tampa Bay Tech vs #4 Armwood 

[Longtime Observer]

I still think Venice is way overrated. Yes, they've put up a lot of points. But, there's nothing impressive about the way they abuse silly rules and cheap tricks to get them. MNW got caught in substitution problems all night long due to games around tempo and subbing, racking up a lot of illegal substitution and 12 men on the field penalties. And of course Venice has always abused the f*ck out of the stupid high school offsides rule, which allows for a QB in the shotgun formation to f*ck around and get a DL to stick his fingernail in the neutral zone for half a second-ball not snapped and no contact made- and get 5 yards for free.  If you took all the cheap penalties away, Venice would struggle to score against good defenses.

[FBGUY1989]

1 hour ago, Longtime Observer said:

I still think Venice is way overrated. Yes, they've put up a lot of points. But, there's nothing impressive about the way they abuse silly rules and cheap tricks to get them. MNW got caught in substitution problems all night long due to games around tempo and subbing, racking up a lot of illegal substitution and 12 men on the field penalties. And of course Venice has always abused the f*ck out of the stupid high school offsides rule, which allows for a QB in the shotgun formation to f*ck around and get a DL to stick his fingernail in the neutral zone for half a second-ball not snapped and no contact made- and get 5 yards for free.  If you took all the cheap penalties away, Venice would struggle to score against good defenses.

I take it your not a fan of Venice lol.

[KeemD321]

1 hour ago, Longtime Observer said:

I still think Venice is way overrated. Yes, they've put up a lot of points. But, there's nothing impressive about the way they abuse silly rules and cheap tricks to get them. MNW got caught in substitution problems all night long due to games around tempo and subbing, racking up a lot of illegal substitution and 12 men on the field penalties. And of course Venice has always abused the f*ck out of the stupid high school offsides rule, which allows for a QB in the shotgun formation to f*ck around and get a DL to stick his fingernail in the neutral zone for half a second-ball not snapped and no contact made- and get 5 yards for free.  If you took all the cheap penalties away, Venice would struggle to score against good defenses.

The benefits of them playing at home and the refs being use to their tempo. Hopefully Cocoa will stay disciplined and don't let anything get them off their game. There will be alot of points on the offensive side but I don't see Venice running all over Cocoa the way they did MNW. Especially if they differ to the wildcat with W.Watkins, could turn into a long night for them as long as the penalties are low. They will for sure get a couple chunk plays but it seems like the defense is getting in their groove each game. As long as everyone stays healthy leading up to it I can see Cocoa winning by the same score as last season or maybe an extra score. Worst case scenario it'll end the same way as the STA game but they will seal the deal completely

[Longtime Observer]

18 minutes ago, FBGUY1989 said:

I take it your not a fan of Venice lol.

I think that the rules committee and officiating teams need to look at a lot of what Venice does and should look to close some "loopholes" and exploits they use. The offsides rule is the most glaring issue. But, I also think there are problems with how Venice's offensive substitution patterns and practices- coupled with how/when officials declare the "ready for play"- put defenses at unfair disadvantages. I suppose this is more of a "don't hate the player, hate the game" situation. 

[Longtime Observer]

20 minutes ago, KeemD321 said:

The benefits of them playing at home and the refs being use to their tempo. Hopefully Cocoa will stay disciplined and don't let anything get them off their game. There will be alot of points on the offensive side but I don't see Venice running all over Cocoa the way they did MNW. Especially if they differ to the wildcat with W.Watkins, could turn into a long night for them as long as the penalties are low. They will for sure get a couple chunk plays but it seems like the defense is getting in their groove each game. As long as everyone stays healthy leading up to it I can see Cocoa winning by the same score as last season or maybe an extra score. Worst case scenario it'll end the same way as the STA game but they will seal the deal completely

The extremely queer offsides stuff is a HUGE problem. EITHER you end up with guys in the neutral zone (to often TINY degrees) and lose 5 yards OR you're super scared of flinching and then you're slow getting off the snap...in which case it is easier for them.

Cocoa is likely SIGNIFICANTLY better than Venice, yet they may lose in a similar fashion as Northwestern. If the rules change, and/or officials are more mindful of the defense responding to the substitution games and start holding up the snaps some, Venice will cease to put up a lot of points. But none of that is happening this season.

[Longtime Observer]

I think that the immense challenges the state has with finding competent officials plays a role, as well. Venice, to their credit, is going to be lined up and ready to snap the ball REAL quick. The officials are probably often not even ready, but they are scared to blow the whistle and hold up the snap, so Venice gets away with it.

[Mike E]

So, Venice = Lew Alcindor. You need to change the rules because you cannot keep up otherwise? Perhaps a little obsessed? 

[Longtime Observer]

20 hours ago, Mike E said:

So, Venice = Lew Alcindor. You need to change the rules because you cannot keep up otherwise? Perhaps a little obsessed? 

The rules should be somewhat reasonable. Nobody, except for Venice homers, watches what Venice does on offense and thinks "damn, they really took it to the defense there". They see cheap tricks.

[Jullian]

On 9/1/2024 at 12:34 PM, Longtime Observer said:

I still think Venice is way overrated. Yes, they've put up a lot of points. But, there's nothing impressive about the way they abuse silly rules and cheap tricks to get them. MNW got caught in substitution problems all night long due to games around tempo and subbing, racking up a lot of illegal substitution and 12 men on the field penalties. And of course Venice has always abused the f*ck out of the stupid high school offsides rule, which allows for a QB in the shotgun formation to f*ck around and get a DL to stick his fingernail in the neutral zone for half a second-ball not snapped and no contact made- and get 5 yards for free.  If you took all the cheap penalties away, Venice would struggle to score against good defenses.

I see no abuse of “stupid rules” if you’re abiding by the rules! Any good coach is going use any & all advantages to try & win a game!!!!! (How u dislike a team so much that you’ve owned…..). 

[Longtime Observer]

9 hours ago, Jullian said:

I see no abuse of “stupid rules” if you’re abiding by the rules! Any good coach is going use any & all advantages to try & win a game!!!!! (How u dislike a team so much that you’ve owned…..). 

How about we just try to make the rules reasonable? It shouldn't be offsides if the ball isn't snapped and no contact is made. In fact, maybe what's allowed to happen now should be a penalty (delay of game, illegal procedure etc). Allow defenses ample time to make subs and get settled. Of course, such moves would require leadership and courage. So, it's foolish to think such changes are coming.

[Perspective]

12 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

How about we just try to make the rules reasonable? It shouldn't be offsides if the ball isn't snapped and no contact is made. In fact, maybe what's allowed to happen now should be a penalty (delay of game, illegal procedure etc). Allow defenses ample time to make subs and get settled. Of course, such moves would require leadership and courage. So, it's foolish to think such changes are coming.

What, exactly, is Venice doing?  

If they're substituting players, then I agree, the defense ought to have a reasonable period of time to make substitutions of their own.   But, if the offense is not substituting players, but just going straight up to the line of scrimmage (after the ball has been spotted and whistled ready for play, of course) and checking to one of a half-dozen or so designed plays (including the 8-yard hitch, of course), I don't have a problem with that.  Isn't that precisely what is done in every two-minute drill?  And if the Venice QB can use his voice inflections to draw off the defense, well, sorry, that's on the defense (eyes on the ball, guys, eyes on the ball).  If, however, the QB is using his body to simulate a snapped ball, well, isn't that illegal procedure?   If I'm the head coach of a team playing against Venice, it's my obligation to have that conversation with the white hat before the game starts.   Turn a couple of 3rd and 3's into 3rd and 8's and perhaps the offense stops trying to draw the defense offsides.  But just to be safe, perhaps if I'm the defensive coordinator of a team playing Venice, I just might tell my D-line that if Venice comes right up to the ball, no huddle, to back up a yard off the line to give them a little cushion if they do jump forward just a little. 

So, again, I ask the question because I think I can see both sides of this one:  what, exactly, is Venice doing that you don't think they should be able to do?

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

The suits will never change the rules to favor the defense because scoring points is exciting. I actually like a good defensive slugfest, but offensive coaches are always trying to use the rules to F over the defense. 

[Longtime Observer]

10 hours ago, Perspective said:

What, exactly, is Venice doing?  

If they're substituting players, then I agree, the defense ought to have a reasonable period of time to make substitutions of their own.   But, if the offense is not substituting players, but just going straight up to the line of scrimmage (after the ball has been spotted and whistled ready for play, of course) and checking to one of a half-dozen or so designed plays (including the 8-yard hitch, of course), I don't have a problem with that.  Isn't that precisely what is done in every two-minute drill?  And if the Venice QB can use his voice inflections to draw off the defense, well, sorry, that's on the defense (eyes on the ball, guys, eyes on the ball).  If, however, the QB is using his body to simulate a snapped ball, well, isn't that illegal procedure?   If I'm the head coach of a team playing against Venice, it's my obligation to have that conversation with the white hat before the game starts.   Turn a couple of 3rd and 3's into 3rd and 8's and perhaps the offense stops trying to draw the defense offsides.  But just to be safe, perhaps if I'm the defensive coordinator of a team playing Venice, I just might tell my D-line that if Venice comes right up to the ball, no huddle, to back up a yard off the line to give them a little cushion if they do jump forward just a little. 

So, again, I ask the question because I think I can see both sides of this one:  what, exactly, is Venice doing that you don't think they should be able to do?

Definitively: Change the offsides rule to mirror the college and NFL version. A QB, in the shotgun, who does not snap the ball, should not be able to get an offsides penalty unless a defender makes contact with the offense. Imagine the collective outrage if many of the things producing offsides calls for Venice were called in college and the pros!

Possibly, pending closer review of film and in-person observation: allow defenses more time to substitute or get lined up prior to the snap. Officials at superior levels of the game don't let the offense snap the ball at the exact time they want every play. Sometimes the official will hold onto the ball until a sufficient amount of time has transpired to allow the defense, or the officials, to get ready. For Venice, especially their home games, it seems the *only* entity dictating when the ball is snapped is Venice's offense. Officials and rule-makers should simply observe what happens when Venice has the ball and consider whether it's all truly fair. If the actual goal is to make things unfair for defenses so as to produce what many consider to be more entertaining games, say so! 

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

@nolebull813 check your PM bro

[Ray Icaza]

After last night it looks like The First Academy deserves your inclusion into the TOP 25 of your list.  Total demolition of Treasure Coast appears to confirm these 30+ "Transfers" they got between seasons is definitely paying dividends.  How far will they go, time will tell but no doubt they are for real.  

[nolebull813]

33 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

After last night it looks like The First Academy deserves your inclusion into the TOP 25 of your list.  Total demolition of Treasure Coast appears to confirm these 30+ "Transfers" they got between seasons is definitely paying dividends.  How far will they go, time will tell but no doubt they are for real.  

They are in my 25. Have them 24 before the T Coast game 

[Ray Icaza]

3 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

They are in my 25. Have them 24 before the T Coast game 

Sorry if I wasn't clear as it was actually a compliment that you had included them in your Top 25 which is why I referenced it in this thread that showed just that.  

[nolebull813]

7 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Sorry if I wasn't clear as it was actually a compliment that you had included them in your Top 25 which is why I referenced it in this thread that showed just that.  

Their 2 wins prior are just as good (Lipscomb and Edgewater) as any other team in the top 10-25. They earned their spot with quality on field performances. 

[Ray Icaza]

15 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Their 2 wins prior are just as good (Lipscomb and Edgewater) as any other team in the top 10-25. They earned their spot with quality on field performances. 

They are actually better wins, but they annihilated TC as this game was called early due to weather and they still hung 42 points against a traditionally good defensive team.  

[nolebull813]

10 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

They are actually better wins, but they annihilated TC as this game was called early due to weather and they still hung 42 points against a traditionally good defensive team.  

They still have two big games with Rabun gap and Sanford Seminole. I think they might be able to hang with Chaminade in 1A possibly

[KeemD321]

3 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

They still have two big games with Rabun gap and Sanford Seminole. I think they might be able to hang with Chaminade in 1A possibly

I'm looking forward to those 2 games. I feel like they may be even with Rabun Gap. The Seminole game is a great test as well