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Private Schools vs Public Schools


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Football:
2019: 3 of 8 Classes were private schools champions
2018: 3 of 8 Classes were private schools champions
2017: 3 of 8 Classes were private schools champions
2016: 4 of 8 Classes were private schools champions
2015: 4 of 8 Classes were private schools champions
________________ 
17 out of 40 (42.5%)

Volleyball:
2019: 3 of 7 Classes were private schools champions
2018: 5 of 9 Classes were private schools champions
2017: 4 of 9 Classes were private schools champions
2016: 6 of 9 Classes were private schools champions
2015: 4 of 8 Classes were private schools champions
________________ 
22 out of 42 (52.4%)

Girls Basketball:
2019-20: 4 of 7 Classes were private schools champions
2018-19: 5 of 9 Classes were private schools champions
2017-18: 5 of 9 Classes were private schools champions
2016-17: 2 of 9 Classes were private schools champions
2015-16: 2 of 8 Classes were private schools champions
________________ 
18 out of 42 (42.9%)
 

Boys Soccer:
2019-20: 4 of 6 Classes were private schools champions
2018-19: 3 of 5 Classes were private schools champions
2017-18: 3 of 5 Classes were private schools champions
2016-17: 1 of 5 Classes were private schools champions
2015-16: 3 of 5 Classes were private schools champions
________________ 
14 out of 26 (53.8%)

Girls Soccer:
2019-20: 5 of 6 Classes were private schools champions
2018-19: 4 of 5 Classes were private schools champions
2017-18: 4 of 5 Classes were private schools champions
2016-17: 3 of 5 Classes were private schools champions
2015-16: 3 of 5 Classes were private schools champions
________________ 
19 out of 26 (73.1%)
 

Overall: 51.1% of state championships in team sports (not counting boys basketball/softball/baseball yet) have been won by private schools. Perhaps the conversation should be to move private schools in every sport, but football into their own classification or simply a large school/small school private designation. 

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The funny thing is no one makes a peep when publics dominate, but cry foul when privates do. 
 

Since the early 2000’s Armwood, Lakeland, Plant, Cocoa, Booker T, Miami Central, and Northwestern all have TONS of titles. No one makes a peep. 
 

but when STA, AHP, Chaminade, Jax TC, Jax UC and NFC etc. win ITS UNFAIR!!!!!!!!

quit bitching. Lol

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19 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

The funny thing is no one makes a peep when publics dominate, but cry foul when privates do. 
 

Since the early 2000’s Armwood, Lakeland, Plant, Cocoa, Booker T, Miami Central, and Northwestern all have TONS of titles. No one makes a peep. 
 

but when STA, AHP, Chaminade, Jax TC, Jax UC and NFC etc. win ITS UNFAIR!!!!!!!!

quit bitching. Lol

I believe lots of people have called out Lakeland, Armwood, and Plant when they were wining for recruiting.  Everyone knows what happens in Miami

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The primary variable here is the degree of population density, and to some extent, wealth, in a given area. The private schools that are racking up titles are almost entirely from large urban areas, where there are numerous big time prospects annually and still enough wealthy families willing to pay high tuition and support the program in other ways.

If not for the factors above, the current open enrollment rules would actually figure to leave public schools with the advantage now.

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On 3/5/2020 at 2:31 AM, nolebull813 said:

The funny thing is no one makes a peep when publics dominate, but cry foul when privates do. 
 

Since the early 2000’s Armwood, Lakeland, Plant, Cocoa, Booker T, Miami Central, and Northwestern all have TONS of titles. No one makes a peep. 
 

but when STA, AHP, Chaminade, Jax TC, Jax UC and NFC etc. win ITS UNFAIR!!!!!!!!

quit bitching. Lol

That’s real now!

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On 3/4/2020 at 8:31 PM, nolebull813 said:

The funny thing is no one makes a peep when publics dominate, but cry foul when privates do. 
 

Since the early 2000’s Armwood, Lakeland, Plant, Cocoa, Booker T, Miami Central, and Northwestern all have TONS of titles. No one makes a peep. 
 

but when STA, AHP, Chaminade, Jax TC, Jax UC and NFC etc. win ITS UNFAIR!!!!!!!!

quit bitching. Lol

Actually, the public schools have a big advantage over the privates when it comes to building a football team. A public school takes from any and all of their Jimmies and Joes on campus. Many of those Jimmies and Joes are not available to a private school as some of them cannot afford the tuition, cannot meet the private school requisites, or just are not interested in attending a private school. So the privates have to scramble to put together a viable team from the few Jimmies and Joes available to them. These are the facts that should be indisputable to most. 

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6 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Actually, the public schools have a big advantage over the privates when it comes to building a football team. A public school takes from any and all of their Jimmies and Joes on campus. Many of those Jimmies and Joes are not available to a private school as some of them cannot afford the tuition, cannot meet the private school requisites, or just are not interested in attending a private school. So the privates have to scramble to put together a viable team from the few Jimmies and Joes available to them. These are the facts that should be indisputable to most. 

Not the private schools that dish out financial aid to athletes and not regular kids.  Those private schools do just fine

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16 hours ago, badbird said:

Not the private schools that dish out financial aid to athletes and not regular kids.  Those private schools do just fine

Hmmm, I thought it was a violation of FHSAA rules for a private school to provide financial assistance to a student based on that student's athletic ability.   Are there private schools out there that are actually doing that?!?!   B)

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Public’s have one major edge and that’s on the lines. Privates tend to get skill guys, but when you have a public with 1,500-2,000 kids you can find some 275-300 pound guys to clog up the lines. 
 

Poinciana is one of the worst teams in state history and a few years ago the beat some small private from California. The Cali coach said Poinciana’s line was 50 pounds heavier per man and that was the difference 

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  • 6 months later...

Dont want my first post to be one that rehashes an old topic. But every time i look up Poinciana this is the same thread i keep seeing. 

I was on the staff at this game. There was way more than big kids on the line that won that game. Yes, Point was brought in to be the whipping boy for that game. What happened was more of good plays and good takeaways. The opponent underestimated the team they were playing. We had a running back that ran for about 250 yds,(don't have the exact stats) A forced fumble that went for 6 from the MLB.

So why has Poinciana struggled? Is it one of the worst teams in the state?, Maybe in wins and losses, but there are other ways to judge a program.  These are not football kids in general. With a rival school less than 5 miles away, that Poinciana has never beaten, makes it hard to keep kids because school of choice. We have kids that live within 400 yards of the school and drive all the way to St. Cloud to play. I'm not aggravated with St.Cloud or even with the system. The program has to offer something to make kids want to be there. Poinciana may have 2300 kids on campus (in a normal year) but the talent level is that of a small 4a school. This is not a disrespect of the athletes in the school as there are many. Every kid thinks they are a NBA star in high school even at 5'6". I see many good potential football players who say " im a basketball player, I don't want to hurt my NBA future by playing football"  Then I ask them "look at yourself, and tell me how many people do you see that look like you playing college, much less NBA". While I have been there we had a basketball coach that forbid his players to play football. Some of the best athletes on campus. Current staff encourages multi sport athletes. But a football program has to have something to offer to attract players. 

One of the biggest problems with football here is turn over in coaching staff. No head coach has been there for more than 3 years. I think when I did the math is was a average of 1.6 years tenure. Cant build anything that way. The kids have nothing to believe in. I have seen some phenomenal athletes at this school who did play football. They were under used or not used properly to their talent level or chose to not play football at all. You cant force a downhill running back to be a zone back or a spread team be a power team or vice versa. Once you build a relationship with a player and finally get the buy in, poof the coach is gone. No disrespect to former head coaches. Everyone has their own agenda or one forced upon them. But it still doesn't build a program. I have worked under some great coaches and some that were clueless. I did my best to be a faithful assistant while learning all the time. Seeing what worked and what didn't and figuring out why. The biggest take away i had from this was coaches trying to pound a square peg into a round hole and lack of staff. There was a year where 1 coach had 60 jv players all by himself and also had varsity duties. I will say that getting approved to coach in this county is a struggle all in itself and the time it takes and the process has caused some coaches to just go somewhere else. Since i have been here administration (3 different principals) support has been there. They are not looking for wins. They understand the process. 

So looking at the other things this program has done. in the last 3 years every player who was looking for something at the next level received an offer. Maybe not be where they wanted to go as we haven't had a D1 player in years, even though they all think they are. We have found a fit for them financially and athletically where they have the opportunity to actually play and thrive academically. After all isn't that really what we are supposed to be doing? Having said that, that is no excuse for losing almost every game. So lets look at that. Look at the districts where Poinciana has been assigned. When we were 5A (south lake, eustis, tavaries, jones, bishop moore) and 7A (winter haven, bartow, george jenkins, liberty). No chance of ever competing for a district championship.  Out of all those teams poinciana has only beaten 1 of them. In my opinion those teams are in a different class than poinciana. not making excuses, just stating facts. Can Poinciana get to that level? Yes!, but not over night. We now have the Staff (11 coaches) where we can concentrate on the smaller things and make us better as a whole on the field as well as off. Only time will tell if this is the right direction.

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On 3/10/2020 at 9:46 AM, Perspective said:

Hmmm, I thought it was a violation of FHSAA rules for a private school to provide financial assistance to a student based on that student's athletic ability.   Are there private schools out there that are actually doing that?!?!   B)

The state of Florida doles out the money for many of these kids to enroll in the private schools. The FHSAA has nothing to say about that.

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12 hours ago, Beek said:

Dont want my first post to be one that rehashes an old topic. But every time i look up Poinciana this is the same thread i keep seeing. 

I was on the staff at this game. There was way more than big kids on the line that won that game. Yes, Point was brought in to be the whipping boy for that game. What happened was more of good plays and good takeaways. The opponent underestimated the team they were playing. We had a running back that ran for about 250 yds,(don't have the exact stats) A forced fumble that went for 6 from the MLB.

So why has Poinciana struggled? Is it one of the worst teams in the state?, Maybe in wins and losses, but there are other ways to judge a program.  These are not football kids in general. With a rival school less than 5 miles away, that Poinciana has never beaten, makes it hard to keep kids because school of choice. We have kids that live within 400 yards of the school and drive all the way to St. Cloud to play. I'm not aggravated with St.Cloud or even with the system. The program has to offer something to make kids want to be there. Poinciana may have 2300 kids on campus (in a normal year) but the talent level is that of a small 4a school. This is not a disrespect of the athletes in the school as there are many. Every kid thinks they are a NBA star in high school even at 5'6". I see many good potential football players who say " im a basketball player, I don't want to hurt my NBA future by playing football"  Then I ask them "look at yourself, and tell me how many people do you see that look like you playing college, much less NBA". While I have been there we had a basketball coach that forbid his players to play football. Some of the best athletes on campus. Current staff encourages multi sport athletes. But a football program has to have something to offer to attract players. 

One of the biggest problems with football here is turn over in coaching staff. No head coach has been there for more than 3 years. I think when I did the math is was a average of 1.6 years tenure. Cant build anything that way. The kids have nothing to believe in. I have seen some phenomenal athletes at this school who did play football. They were under used or not used properly to their talent level or chose to not play football at all. You cant force a downhill running back to be a zone back or a spread team be a power team or vice versa. Once you build a relationship with a player and finally get the buy in, poof the coach is gone. No disrespect to former head coaches. Everyone has their own agenda or one forced upon them. But it still doesn't build a program. I have worked under some great coaches and some that were clueless. I did my best to be a faithful assistant while learning all the time. Seeing what worked and what didn't and figuring out why. The biggest take away i had from this was coaches trying to pound a square peg into a round hole and lack of staff. There was a year where 1 coach had 60 jv players all by himself and also had varsity duties. I will say that getting approved to coach in this county is a struggle all in itself and the time it takes and the process has caused some coaches to just go somewhere else. Since i have been here administration (3 different principals) support has been there. They are not looking for wins. They understand the process. 

So looking at the other things this program has done. in the last 3 years every player who was looking for something at the next level received an offer. Maybe not be where they wanted to go as we haven't had a D1 player in years, even though they all think they are. We have found a fit for them financially and athletically where they have the opportunity to actually play and thrive academically. After all isn't that really what we are supposed to be doing? Having said that, that is no excuse for losing almost every game. So lets look at that. Look at the districts where Poinciana has been assigned. When we were 5A (south lake, eustis, tavaries, jones, bishop moore) and 7A (winter haven, bartow, george jenkins, liberty). No chance of ever competing for a district championship.  Out of all those teams poinciana has only beaten 1 of them. In my opinion those teams are in a different class than poinciana. not making excuses, just stating facts. Can Poinciana get to that level? Yes!, but not over night. We now have the Staff (11 coaches) where we can concentrate on the smaller things and make us better as a whole on the field as well as off. Only time will tell if this is the right direction.

This is a great first message board post Beek. One of the keys to building a great High School Football program is a consistent coaching staff who is dedicated to the long haul. Maybe things can get going in the right direction for your program.

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15 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

This is a great first message board post Beek. One of the keys to building a great High School Football program is a consistent coaching staff who is dedicated to the long haul. Maybe things can get going in the right direction for your program.

You are correct. Also, a good HC cannot make a winning team without a good QB. The years that we won championships or did very well is when we had a very good coach and a very good QB. The other years we had OK coaches and not so OK QB's and we didn't do very well. IMO a QB, especially in HS football, can make or break a team just like a HC, in HS football, can make or break a team. I watched the Celtics from 2003 when they had their first football team until now and I can attest to this being the case every time.

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12 hours ago, Beek said:

Dont want my first post to be one that rehashes an old topic. But every time i look up Poinciana this is the same thread i keep seeing. 

I was on the staff at this game. There was way more than big kids on the line that won that game. Yes, Point was brought in to be the whipping boy for that game. What happened was more of good plays and good takeaways. The opponent underestimated the team they were playing. We had a running back that ran for about 250 yds,(don't have the exact stats) A forced fumble that went for 6 from the MLB.

So why has Poinciana struggled? Is it one of the worst teams in the state?, Maybe in wins and losses, but there are other ways to judge a program.  These are not football kids in general. With a rival school less than 5 miles away, that Poinciana has never beaten, makes it hard to keep kids because school of choice. We have kids that live within 400 yards of the school and drive all the way to St. Cloud to play. I'm not aggravated with St.Cloud or even with the system. The program has to offer something to make kids want to be there. Poinciana may have 2300 kids on campus (in a normal year) but the talent level is that of a small 4a school. This is not a disrespect of the athletes in the school as there are many. Every kid thinks they are a NBA star in high school even at 5'6". I see many good potential football players who say " im a basketball player, I don't want to hurt my NBA future by playing football"  Then I ask them "look at yourself, and tell me how many people do you see that look like you playing college, much less NBA". While I have been there we had a basketball coach that forbid his players to play football. Some of the best athletes on campus. Current staff encourages multi sport athletes. But a football program has to have something to offer to attract players. 

One of the biggest problems with football here is turn over in coaching staff. No head coach has been there for more than 3 years. I think when I did the math is was a average of 1.6 years tenure. Cant build anything that way. The kids have nothing to believe in. I have seen some phenomenal athletes at this school who did play football. They were under used or not used properly to their talent level or chose to not play football at all. You cant force a downhill running back to be a zone back or a spread team be a power team or vice versa. Once you build a relationship with a player and finally get the buy in, poof the coach is gone. No disrespect to former head coaches. Everyone has their own agenda or one forced upon them. But it still doesn't build a program. I have worked under some great coaches and some that were clueless. I did my best to be a faithful assistant while learning all the time. Seeing what worked and what didn't and figuring out why. The biggest take away i had from this was coaches trying to pound a square peg into a round hole and lack of staff. There was a year where 1 coach had 60 jv players all by himself and also had varsity duties. I will say that getting approved to coach in this county is a struggle all in itself and the time it takes and the process has caused some coaches to just go somewhere else. Since i have been here administration (3 different principals) support has been there. They are not looking for wins. They understand the process. 

So looking at the other things this program has done. in the last 3 years every player who was looking for something at the next level received an offer. Maybe not be where they wanted to go as we haven't had a D1 player in years, even though they all think they are. We have found a fit for them financially and athletically where they have the opportunity to actually play and thrive academically. After all isn't that really what we are supposed to be doing? Having said that, that is no excuse for losing almost every game. So lets look at that. Look at the districts where Poinciana has been assigned. When we were 5A (south lake, eustis, tavaries, jones, bishop moore) and 7A (winter haven, bartow, george jenkins, liberty). No chance of ever competing for a district championship.  Out of all those teams poinciana has only beaten 1 of them. In my opinion those teams are in a different class than poinciana. not making excuses, just stating facts. Can Poinciana get to that level? Yes!, but not over night. We now have the Staff (11 coaches) where we can concentrate on the smaller things and make us better as a whole on the field as well as off. Only time will tell if this is the right direction.

Great post coach....Also congrats on the win last night

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58 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

You are correct. Also, a good HC cannot make a winning team without a good QB. The years that we won championships or did very well is when we had a very good coach and a very good QB. The other years we had OK coaches and not so OK QB's and we didn't do very well. IMO a QB, especially in HS football, can make or break a team just like a HC, in HS football, can make or break a team. I watched the Celtics from 2003 when they had their first football team until now and I can attest to this being the case every time.

If a good qb is the answer I consider myself blessed. Last year had a very good senior. A student of the game. This year we have a sophomore who in my opinion will be better than the senior we had. He is young, but very talented and a natural leader. Only time will tell but in my opinion his future looks bright. We still have to work very hard on the parts around him though. 

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