Why the hurry to change the M,S,R system?

[nolebull813]

In my system, Lakeland, Venice, Columbus, Mandarin, Edgewater, Jones, Buchholz, Lake Mary, Seminole,  St Thomas Aquinas, Homestead all would have been in the same class. Playoffs would have been epic. 

[nolebull813]

My system would have looked like this 

Enrollment 100-500 class 1A

501-900 class 2A 

901-1,300 class 3A

1,301-1,800 class 4A

1,801 and above class 5A

 

i don’t have all the enrollments in front of me but those numbers could slightly change based on the amount in each class. I would scale it to be around 100 teams per class 

[Ray Icaza]

7 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

But they are under the same rules. Columbia could attract talent from all over if the players were talented AND wanted to go there. Even the rural schools are close to each other relatively speaking. 
 

The issue is there isn’t a lot of talent up North. The South has talented oozing out everywhere. Talent literally all over the place. North Florida not so much. 

Kids that transfer to Chaminade or STA most likely come from the same proximity as kids who are the same distance to Lake City from Live Oak, Branford, Fort White, Alachua etc etc. 

Only difference is the kids going to Chaminade and STA are D1 studs and all those other places up North not so much. But that isn’t South Floridas fault 

 

 

 

 

 

Simple math.  A city of half million will have MORE kids that are tall, big, fast, strong, athletic, have the "IT" factor or any other meaningful metric than a city of 20,000.  No one is assigning BLAME, it ain't the fault of Dade, Broward or Palm Beach that they are METRO's.  Yulee now and then will produce a single Derrick Henry while Miami may produce dozens.  Therein lies the difference and telling someone to just suck it up isn't a good argument.  Curious to see if this open division can voluntarily flourish as I doubt the schools that are used to beating up on the little guys are itching for a fight with each other for a single state championship.  Which by the way I support.  Saying they play by the same rules is a pitiful argument also as I am as big of a boxing fan as a football fan which is why they have weight divisions, aka "FAIRNESS"!!  It's like matching a heavyweight with a lightweight. Usually a predictable outcome. 

[deuce71]

1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

Teams are being punished because the system is so watered down that the competition suffers. The top dogs are gonna win no matter the system, but 9 classes is an embarrassment. If it was 6 like it should be the same top teams will win, only the early playoffs games would be infinitely better. All the horrible teams would be gone by round 1. 
 

It’s pathetic that the state top 10 has teams from 7 or 8 classes. That is a travesty

I don't understand the competition suffers angle when these last two have been some of the most entertaining and competitive playoffs in recent memory.

Powerhouses are going to win like they always do. Except now A Lot of teams that have an overwhelming disadvantage to the Metro teams get exposure.

Better Product

More Exposure 

What's the negative here for Florida football?

 

 

[Tigerskin]

2 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

In my system, Lakeland, Venice, Columbus, Mandarin, Edgewater, Jones, Buchholz, Lake Mary, Seminole,  St Thomas Aquinas, Homestead all would have been in the same class. Playoffs would have been epic. 

So you  think a county of 50000 can pull the same talent as a county of 3 million lol. If you think smaller schools should just go and play and suck it up .then if south Fl is so good why are they so scared to play in a mandatory open division.

[deuce71]

3 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

Teams are being punished because the system is so watered down that the competition suffers. The top dogs are gonna win no matter the system, but 9 classes is an embarrassment. If it was 6 like it should be the same top teams will win, only the early playoffs games would be infinitely better. All the horrible teams would be gone by round 1. 
 

It’s pathetic that the state top 10 has teams from 7 or 8 classes. That is a travesty 

With more research Why do you find 9 classes an embarrassment? The only two states that's in our population range are Cali and Texas. They have 15 and 10 classes respectively . 10 is normal given our population size. Georgia a state with 1/7th our population has 6 classes. Why is it a problem that Florida has more classes than other states?

[nolebull813]

4 hours ago, deuce71 said:

With more research Why do you find 9 classes an embarrassment? The only two states that's in our population range are Cali and Texas. They have 15 and 10 classes respectively . 10 is normal given our population size. Georgia a state with 1/7th our population has 6 classes. Why is it a problem that Florida has more classes than other states?

Pennsylvania has 6 classes with the exact amount of teams as Florida 

Ohio has 7 classes with 200 MORE TEAMS than Florida!!!

9 classes is a watered down embarrassment

[nolebull813]

4 hours ago, deuce71 said:

With more research Why do you find 9 classes an embarrassment? The only two states that's in our population range are Cali and Texas. They have 15 and 10 classes respectively . 10 is normal given our population size. Georgia a state with 1/7th our population has 6 classes. Why is it a problem that Florida has more classes than other states?

Who has 1/7 of the population of us? Georgia has half the people we do.

Georgia has about 100 less teams than we do so they should only have one or two less classes

[TigerKing]

7 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

But they are under the same rules. Columbia could attract talent from all over if the players were talented AND wanted to go there. Even the rural schools are close to each other relatively speaking. 
 

The issue is there isn’t a lot of talent up North. The South has talented oozing out everywhere. Talent literally all over the place. North Florida not so much. 

Kids that transfer to Chaminade or STA most likely come from the same proximity as kids who are the same distance to Lake City from Live Oak, Branford, Fort White, Alachua etc etc. 

Only difference is the kids going to Chaminade and STA are D1 studs and all those other places up North not so much. But that isn’t South Floridas fault 

Broward is the 6th largest school district in the nation and you think Columbia getting kids from poor ole santa fe, little ole fort white, & little ole branford puts them on a level playing field with STA? 
 

columbia county ≈70k people
broward county ≈2 million people

 

i respect your opinion, but if you truly believe they are on a level playing field, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

[nolebull813]

1 hour ago, TigerKing said:

Broward is the 6th largest school district in the nation and you think Columbia getting kids from poor ole santa fe, little ole fort white, & little ole branford puts them on a level playing field with STA? 
 

columbia county ≈70k people
broward county ≈2 million people

 

i respect your opinion, but if you truly believe they are on a level playing field, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

The argument you are making contradicts itself because the fact that there are so many other teams means STA would have to fight for and compete for talent with about 100 teams

they are just more successful at it than others

[Nulli Secundus]

1 hour ago, TigerKing said:

Broward is the 6th largest school district in the nation and you think Columbia getting kids from poor ole santa fe, little ole fort white, & little ole branford puts them on a level playing field with STA? 
 

columbia county ≈70k people
broward county ≈2 million people

 

i respect your opinion, but if you truly believe they are on a level playing field, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

For the sake of this discussion (**cough cough FHSAA), we should introduce population in terms of high school age kids, not the entire county.  Your grandma won't be putting on those kind of pads, lol.

High School Age Population

Miami-Dade    105450
Broward    81108
Hillsborough    68078
Orange    66525
Palm Beach    60972
Duval    36273
Polk    35018
Lee    31747
Pinellas    30006
Pasco    25428
Osceola    23286
Brevard    23254
Seminole    21798
Volusia    20396
St. Johns    16200
Manatee    15607
St. Lucie    15520
Collier    15394
Lake    14401
Sarasota    14318
Marion    13394
Clay    12801
Escambia    11196
Santa Rosa    10089
Okaloosa    9817
Leon    9511
Alachua    8782
Bay    7917
Hernando    7488
Martin    6156
Charlotte    5784
Indian River    5473
Hendry    4922
Citrus    4845
Flagler    4583
Nassau    3942
Highlands    3738
Walton    3306
Putnam    2851
Monroe    2649
Columbia    2644
Sumter    2629
Okeechobee    1918
Suwanee    1675
Jackson    1619
Levy    1501
Hardee    1449
Wakulla    1447
Baker    1426
Desoto    1303
Gadsden    1223
Holmes    965
Washington    964
Bradford    793
Gilchrist    709
Madison    701
Calhoun    676
Taylor    645
Union    633
Gulf    601
Dixie    536
Hamilton    498
Liberty    383
Lafayette    344
Glades    304
Franklin    301
Jefferson    217

.....and GO!

Data pulled from DOE: Student Enrollment

[h8r]

12 hours ago, Coach O said:

Whew!!! My son would never play for some of you coaches. What message are we teaching kids that winning a participation trophy is ok? Teach your child to be the best he can be and sometimes that means playing the best.  Ever heard of David and Goliath,,, hell have you heard of Bradford and Norland…. 
 

football is not for everyone; that’s why each school has multiple sports. Also what about softball, baseball, swimmming, volleyball, golf, bowling, lacrosse, you do know that most down south schools get a running clock in most if not all these sports. But you don’t hear them complaints, they simply play another sport!
 

this year we had GEOGRAPHICAL AREA  CHAMPIONS. Not

STATE CHAMPIONS,. Any outsider that reads this- We have suburban champions. That really says it all

The State champions means what is says - The “state of Florida” Champions!! Glad we are going back to that model

 

im simply just laughing at this, because of the most insane thing Ive read today, so far.  

you said running clocks in most if not all of these sports

baseball, softball, golf, bowling, volleyball.....SWIMMING!!!

whatever it is that you had to drink to come up with this sheer nonsense, please enlighten the board, we all want to sip on that good good.

FFS, 

 

[smashmouth80]

12 hours ago, Coach O said:

Whew!!! My son would never play for some of you coaches. What message are we teaching kids that winning a participation trophy is ok? Teach your child to be the best he can be and sometimes that means playing the best.  Ever heard of David and Goliath,,, hell have you heard of Bradford and Norland…. 
 

football is not for everyone; that’s why each school has multiple sports. Also what about softball, baseball, swimmming, volleyball, golf, bowling, lacrosse, you do know that most down south schools get a running clock in most if not all these sports. But you don’t hear them complaints, they simply play another sport!
 

this year we had GEOGRAPHICAL AREA  CHAMPIONS. Not

STATE CHAMPIONS,. Any outsider that reads this- We have suburban champions. That really says it all

The State champions means what is says - The “state of Florida” Champions!! Glad we are going back to that model

 

Why even have enrollments classify it? If you want to be a true State Champ. There should only be 1 class. With enrollment used to classify you are only a champion of a specific set of schools not the entire state by your logic. 

[Nulli Secundus]

46 minutes ago, smashmouth80 said:

Why even have enrollments classify it? If you want to be a true State Champ. There should only be 1 class. With enrollment used to classify you are only a champion of a specific set of schools not the entire state by your logic. 

Here you go!
One Class, One Title, One undisputed FHSAA champion

[CoachGraham]

2 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

The argument you are making contradicts itself because the fact that there are so many other teams means STA would have to fight for and compete for talent with about 100 teams

they are just more successful at it than others

In comparison with the other schools in the area, sure they're good at it. Which is equitable between STA and the schools around them. That doesn't make it equitable with Columbia in Lake City. 

[CoachGraham]

Madison    701
 

Hmmm...

[nolebull813]

29 minutes ago, CoachGraham said:

In comparison with the other schools in the area, sure they're good at it. Which is equitable between STA and the schools around them. That doesn't make it equitable with Columbia in Lake City. 

So rules have to be altered based on something STA has no control over. Sounds like they are being punished. 

[nolebull813]

1 hour ago, Nulli Secundus said:

Here you go!
One Class, One Title, One undisputed FHSAA champion

It’s the only true way to be state champion. 

[CoachGraham]

2 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

So rules have to be altered based on something STA has no control over. Sounds like they are being punished. 

Versus your argument in which the smaller schools from suburban and rural areas are being "punished." If kids went to where they were zoned to go, STA would not be where they are now. To you, THAT is fine but then changing with the times as those rules change isn't alright? You only want the rules that benefit the metro schools because you root for metro schools, right? 

 

There's definitely arguments for both sides, and the answer is probably somewhere in the middle...but you aren't willing to concede that it seems. 

[DarterBlue2]

5 hours ago, Nulli Secundus said:

For the sake of this discussion (**cough cough FHSAA), we should introduce population in terms of high school age kids, not the entire county.  Your grandma won't be putting on those kind of pads, lol.

High School Age Population

Miami-Dade    105450
Broward    81108
Hillsborough    68078
Orange    66525
Palm Beach    60972
Duval    36273
Polk    35018
Lee    31747
Pinellas    30006
Pasco    25428
Osceola    23286
Brevard    23254
Seminole    21798
Volusia    20396
St. Johns    16200
Manatee    15607
St. Lucie    15520
Collier    15394
Lake    14401
Sarasota    14318
Marion    13394
Clay    12801
Escambia    11196
Santa Rosa    10089
Okaloosa    9817
Leon    9511
Alachua    8782
Bay    7917
Hernando    7488
Martin    6156
Charlotte    5784
Indian River    5473
Hendry    4922
Citrus    4845
Flagler    4583
Nassau    3942
Highlands    3738
Walton    3306
Putnam    2851
Monroe    2649
Columbia    2644
Sumter    2629
Okeechobee    1918
Suwanee    1675
Jackson    1619
Levy    1501
Hardee    1449
Wakulla    1447
Baker    1426
Desoto    1303
Gadsden    1223
Holmes    965
Washington    964
Bradford    793
Gilchrist    709
Madison    701
Calhoun    676
Taylor    645
Union    633
Gulf    601
Dixie    536
Hamilton    498
Liberty    383
Lafayette    344
Glades    304
Franklin    301
Jefferson    217

.....and GO!

Data pulled from DOE: Student Enrollment

Based on those stats, Metro should probably consist of Dade through Pasco, the top 10 population counties. That would be different than what we had before the latest decision on the part of the FHSAA. 

[Nulli Secundus]

1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Based on those stats, Metro should probably consist of Dade through Pasco, the top 10 population counties. That would be different than what we had before the latest decision on the part of the FHSAA. 

I'm not shocked that the FHSAA chose the ENTIRE county populations when determining Metro/Suburban classifications.  It makes absolutely no sense.  

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

4 hours ago, Nulli Secundus said:

I'm not shocked that the FHSAA chose the ENTIRE county populations when determining Metro/Suburban classifications.  It makes absolutely no sense.  

If you watched any of that board meeting its easy to see that they are a dysfunctional bunch

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

Best thing the FHSAA can do right now is 1a-7a and create the 8 team open division. I was against the 32 team open division because it would water down the other classes more than they were before Metro/Suburban. The 8 team division would create great games and the other classes would still be very competitive. The question would be how would they do the playoffs in the 8 team open division when the other classes have 32 teams. An ex coach I know said they could give a bye the first round and again after their semi final games. Problem is they would only get 13 games when the other finalist get 15.

[Cat_Scratch]

On 12/14/2023 at 8:14 PM, nolebull813 said:

My system would have looked like this 

Enrollment 100-500 class 1A

501-900 class 2A 

901-1,300 class 3A

1,301-1,800 class 4A

1,801 and above class 5A

 

i don’t have all the enrollments in front of me but those numbers could slightly change based on the amount in each class. I would scale it to be around 100 teams per class 

And does an all male schools with an enrollment of 450 play in the same class as a school with an enrollment of 450 male and female students? Something like 200 male and 250 female?

[gatorman-uf]

5 minutes ago, Cat_Scratch said:

And does an all male schools with an enrollment of 450 play in the same class as a school with an enrollment of 450 male and female students? Something like 200 male and 250 female?

No, FHSAA already doubles their population so that school would for the purpose of classifications be at 900 students, not 450.