The Florida High School Football Transfer Disaster, How to Fix it

[The Heartland Archives]

https://www.si.com/college/ucf/high-school-football/fixing-fl-hs-fb-recruiting-issues

[DarterBlue2]

While there is a real problem, I am not sure Brian Smith's solution would not be circumvented by the more astute programs. 

When the state opened up the ease of transferring with or without reason, it became very difficult for the FHSAA which, at that juncture, essentially abandoned any attempt to monitor and penalize recruiting. 

[Perspective]

Interesting read (and I listened to the podcast).  Mr. Smith doesn't really tell us anything that we don't already know.  His solution to the problem is twofold:  (1) a kid can transfer once, as a matter of right; after that, any additional transfers (without a total move into a new district), and the kid has to sit out a year; and (2) $5,000 fine for those guilty of recruiting, to be paid by the coach and/or the school, Mr. Smith doesn't really state his preference on this one.  But, nor does he really address the issue of what happens if the coach and/or the school is not directly involved in the recruiting.   For example, what happens when a kid at one school is being blatantly recruited by a kid or family from another school?  Who do you fine then?  Are we going to fine a high school kid who gives some other kid a sales pitch at a 7 on 7 tournament over the summer?  Are we going to fine the coach or the school if that were to happen?  Who among us would think it fair to fine a coach more than he makes in a single season because some kid on his team tries to lure some kid from another team to jump ship at a summer camp?

Here's the thing that got my attention:  I don't know Mr. Smith, but he appears to be involved with UCF, although I can't tell whether he's formally associated with the school or just does his own thing with respect to UCF football and recruiting.   I ask this question because Mr. Smith calls for all coaches to start reporting recruiting incidents.  If he's truly a media person, why doesn't he do an "All the President's Men" type journalistic piece and start naming names himself?   It's almost like he doesn't like what's going on because it makes it inconvenient for him to keep track of all the top high school players in the state.  And he doesn't want to kill the golden goose by calling out all the wrong-doers and forever tainting the relationship he has with high school coaches.   In other words, if he truly wants to help solve the problem, perhaps he needs to make the sacrifice:  he should do what he wants all the coaches in the state to do -- start calling out the wrong-doers . . . by name, by school and by district.  Bring the receipts forward.  Embarrass a bunch of coaches and see if that gets the attention of the FHSAA and/or the school administrators.  Clean coaches and programs (if there are any) will respect what he does because it will help clean up the problem. 

As always, just my two cents' worth. 

[Hwy17]

That's why I think there should be a cap on the number of transfers a program should be allowed to take. 

[Dan in Daytona]

Someone please refresh my memory. But wasn't the catalyst for all this freedom of movement the Florida legislators, in particular a Polk county one at that ?  I forget many things these days, but fighting Tallahassee would seem to be where this must start if one wants a different result. And good luck with that in the current days of personal "Freedoms" trumping anything that could "possibly" be good for the masses.... #anoldcynic

[badbird]

Not much you can do to stop it.  

 

4 examples of things that have happened in my county over the last 3 years. 

 

1.  I went to an address the kid used to get into school and an old woman lived their and did not know the kid.  The kid had already played in multiple football games.  The county gave the kid an out of zone waiver.  No fine or forfeit for the team.

 

2.  4 kids used the same address to move into a school.  The county let all 4 kids stay and gave them an out of zone waiver

 

3.  The school allowed a kid to enroll using an address zoned for a different school.  Nothing was done to the school and the kid was allowed to stay and given out of zone waiver

 

4.  Students enrolled in another school played for another team in a 7 on 7 event representing that school with their gear using a school bus to transport them to play.  Nothing happened to the coaches.

 

 

 

 

[Perspective]

23 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Someone please refresh my memory. But wasn't the catalyst for all this freedom of movement the Florida legislators, in particular a Polk county one at that ? 

Dan, the timing may be good right now . . . after losing to Lake Gibson Friday night, the folks in Polk's big city might be looking for a new way to solve their problems.   But, I dread not. 

[Perspective]

2 minutes ago, badbird said:

Not much you can do to stop it.  

 

4 examples of things that have happened in my county over the last 3 years. 

 

1.  I went to an address the kid used to get into school and an old woman lived their and did not know the kid.  The kid had already played in multiple football games.  The county gave the kid an out of zone waiver.  No fine or forfeit for the team.

 

2.  4 kids used the same address to move into a school.  The county let all 4 kids stay and gave them an out of zone waiver

 

3.  The school allowed a kid to enroll using an address zoned for a different school.  Nothing was done to the school and the kid was allowed to stay and given out of zone waiver

 

4.  Students enrolled in another school played for another team in a 7 on 7 event representing that school with their gear using a school bus to transport them to play.  Nothing happened to the coaches.

 

 

 

 

Badbird, in light of the current legislation, why does any kid need an "out of zone waiver" to play for another public school within the county?  Remind me which county you're referring to? 

[badbird]

7 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Badbird, in light of the current legislation, why does any kid need an "out of zone waiver" to play for another public school within the county?  Remind me which county you're referring to? 

School Choice not out of zone.  However with school choice there are rules.  You must apply for it and if a school is at capacity you can't go.  It also is done over the summer not in the middle of the school year.  Theses kids enrolled illegally and were allowed to stay.

[Nulli Secundus]

2 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Someone please refresh my memory. But wasn't the catalyst for all this freedom of movement the Florida legislators, in particular a Polk county one at that ?  I forget many things these days, but fighting Tallahassee would seem to be where this must start if one wants a different result. And good luck with that in the current days of personal "Freedoms" trumping anything that could "possibly" be good for the masses.... #anoldcynic

Senator Kelli Stargel

[SFLfootball]

Impossible to stop kids from talking to other kids or guys just wanting to transfer to bigger programs/winning problems. What they need to crack down on are specific things that coaches do

1. If being paid or a volunteer coach, you can not be part of an all star 7s team. Do one with your own team. 
2. You can not run a sports based summer college tour like a side business and take kids from other schools. 
3. You can not follow players from other teams on social media.  A few do it for the right reasons. Most do it to plant the seed even if they never say a word. 
 

Public schools are just as guilty for all the above  #4 more private  

4. Stop allowing private schools to hold clinics and showcases on campus. Public schools are told that if they even mention their sports program to 8th grade visitors it’s a violation.  
 

I don’t even know if these are enforceable in anyway, but they seem to be the most common forms of recruiting that lead to transfers that I see outside of kids just talking to each other. 

[Nulli Secundus]

33 minutes ago, SFLfootball said:

Impossible to stop kids from talking to other kids or guys just wanting to transfer to bigger programs/winning problems. What they need to crack down on are specific things that coaches do

1. If being paid or a volunteer coach, you can not be part of an all star 7s team. Do one with your own team. 
2. You can not run a sports based summer college tour like a side business and take kids from other schools. 
3. You can not follow players from other teams on social media.  A few do it for the right reasons. Most do it to plant the seed even if they never say a word. 
 

Public schools are just as guilty for all the above  #4 more private  

4. Stop allowing private schools to hold clinics and showcases on campus. Public schools are told that if they even mention their sports program to 8th grade visitors it’s a violation.  
 

I don’t even know if these are enforceable in anyway, but they seem to be the most common forms of recruiting that lead to transfers that I see outside of kids just talking to each other. 

What!?  I've been out of school for damn near a quarter century and obviously a lot of rules have changed.  I remember vividly myself and even my friends from other schools where that was a common practice not only at the high school but at middle schools for incoming students at feeder schools.

[SFLfootball]

In South Florida coaches are told it’s recruiting if they talk up football to students visiting from 8th grade even if a feeder Because they aren’t enrolled at your school yet and it’s recruiting for athletics. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but that’s the message. It’s just a small thing, but it creates a bigger divide between different types of schools when added to other things. 

[Jambun82]

12 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Someone please refresh my memory. But wasn't the catalyst for all this freedom of movement the Florida legislators, in particular a Polk county one at that ?  I forget many things these days, but fighting Tallahassee would seem to be where this must start if one wants a different result. And good luck with that in the current days of personal "Freedoms" trumping anything that could "possibly" be good for the masses.... #anoldcynic

Mainland has had many transfers over the years, and you damn well know it. Stop it right now, we don't need that Pat Rice crap on this message board. 

[Dan in Daytona]

3 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Mainland has had many transfers over the years, and you damn well know it. Stop it right now, we don't need that Pat Rice crap on this message board. 

Hold on WILDMAN, you totally mistook my comment. Unlike many here, I got no problem with TRANSFERS. I think kids should attend their school of choice for sports, music, academics, girls, school colors, or whatever as long as there is room for them. I mentioned the conservative legislators because that is the ONLY PLACE CHANGE CAN HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY WERE THE ONE'S WHO INITIATED WHAT WE HAVE NOW. AND YOU AND I KNOW THAT ISN"T GOING TO HAPPEN ANY TIME SOON..... AGREE ?  ........Oh, and by the way I've also got no trouble bashing ignorant thought. It will be easy to pick up on....even for you.

[Jambun82]

18 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Hold on WILDMAN, you totally mistook my comment. Unlike many here, I got no problem with TRANSFERS. I think kids should attend their school of choice for sports, music, academics, girls, school colors, or whatever as long as there is room for them. I mentioned the conservative legislators because that is the ONLY PLACE CHANGE CAN HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY WERE THE ONE'S WHO INITIATED WHAT WE HAVE NOW. AND YOU AND I KNOW THAT ISN"T GOING TO HAPPEN ANY TIME SOON..... AGREE ?  ........Oh, and by the way I've also got no trouble bashing ignorant thought. It will be easy to pick up on....even for you.

I support the transfer movement. Players should be able to choose where they want to play with no exceptions. I don't care about Public School Teachers, and Coaches thoughts or feelings. Those people collect a taxpayer check, and should just do their jobs. I support what the Legislators have done, and I don't care who criticizes me on this message board. 

[Perspective]

13 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

I support the transfer movement. Players should be able to choose where they want to play with no exceptions. I don't care about Public School Teachers, and Coaches thoughts or feelings. Those people collect a taxpayer check, and should just do their jobs. I support what the Legislators have done, and I don't care who criticizes me on this message board. 

Well, duh!   Player movement will simply lead to greater disparity between the "have" teams and the "have not" teams, which will lead to more blow-out games.  And running clock in the second half of games means the game officials get to go home early.     

(Wife to husband wearing a white hat:  "What time will you be home tonight, dear?"  Ref responds:  "Well, I've got STA vs. Hallandale tonight, so I should be home by 9:00 . . . and probably won't even need to shower before going to bed."). 

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Well, duh!   Player movement will simply lead to greater disparity between the "have" teams and the "have not" teams, which will lead to more blow-out games.  And running clock in the second half of games means the game officials get to go home early.     

(Wife to husband wearing a white hat:  "What time will you be home tonight, dear?"  Ref responds:  "Well, I've got STA vs. Hallandale tonight, so I should be home by 9:00 . . . and probably won't even need to shower before going to bed."). 

You seem to be re-enforcing my suspicions about my "friend" Jambun.

[Dan in Daytona]

14 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

You seem to be re-enforcing my suspicions about my "friend" Jambun.

LOL, we had a sit-down several years ago at a Red Robin's (hamburger joint). He's OK. As a long time area high school official and referee, he takes the job very seriously. He's done championship games. He also likes "dinner fries."

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, Dan in Daytona said:

LOL, we had a sit-down several years ago at a Red Robin's (hamburger joint). He's OK. As a long time area high school official and referee, he takes the job very seriously. He's done championship games. He also likes "dinner fries."

Thanks for that, good to know so I won't be so hard on him.  

[Jambun82]

12 hours ago, Perspective said:

Well, duh!   Player movement will simply lead to greater disparity between the "have" teams and the "have not" teams, which will lead to more blow-out games.  And running clock in the second half of games means the game officials get to go home early.     

(Wife to husband wearing a white hat:  "What time will you be home tonight, dear?"  Ref responds:  "Well, I've got STA vs. Hallandale tonight, so I should be home by 9:00 . . . and probably won't even need to shower before going to bed."). 

I don't own a white hat, and I am not married. Clearly, you are not talking about me. That would be a heck of a drive to Ft. Lauderdale from where I live to be home by 9:00 pm. Clarence Darrow and F. Lee Bailey would be disappointed in you Perspective. 

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

You seem to be re-enforcing my suspicions about my "friend" Jambun.

If you want an autograph just let me know Ray. I won't charge you for it, but maybe save me some of the great spread of food that the Kowboys offer a halftime to boosters and officials. 

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

LOL, we had a sit-down several years ago at a Red Robin's (hamburger joint). He's OK. As a long time area high school official and referee, he takes the job very seriously. He's done championship games. He also likes "dinner fries."

Yes, but Dan and I don't discuss politics, or there might have been some "unlimited fists" at Red Robin. lol 

[Ray Icaza]

3 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

If you want an autograph just let me know Ray. I won't charge you for it, but maybe save me some of the great spread of food that the Kowboys offer a halftime to boosters and officials. 

Wow, figured it was past your bedtime to be offering up autographs.  But I already addressed your humility in a previous post.  

[Jambun82]

6 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Wow, figured it was past your bedtime to be offering up autographs.  But I already addressed your humility in a previous post.  

It is not past my bedtime, I usually have been a graveyard-shift worker. Just let me know Ray.