Congratulations Cocoa Tigers

[Dan in Daytona]

For over taking Hollywood Chaminade and winning the FHSAA's final regular season title. Hats off to this perennial little powerhouse  that will play anyone, anywhere. It's hard not to love those kids and their fabulous football program. 

[DarterBlue2]

9 minutes ago, Dan in Daytona said:

For over taking Hollywood Chaminade and winning the FHSAA's final regular season title. Hats off to this perennial little powerhouse  that will play anyone, anywhere. It's hard not to love those kids and their fabulous football program. 

Totally agree with you on that, Dan!

[Cat_Scratch]

3 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

For over taking Hollywood Chaminade and winning the FHSAA's final regular season title. Hats off to this perennial little powerhouse  that will play anyone, anywhere. It's hard not to love those kids and their fabulous football program. 

They work hard and play with a lot of heart. Also, thank you Dan.  

Hopefully we will see Mainland in the finals. They're a very good team.

[muckboy561]

Should been Chaminade....

[Airek]

Congrats to Cocoa for the (should be) undefeated season and well-deserved #1.  Go win a title.

[Dr. D]

Kudos also to Cocoa for arranging such a difficult schedule that they are the rare team to gain the #1 seed in their classification despite having a worse winning percentage than the #2 team in the classification (First Baptist and STA being the others).  The obvious bias toward the winning percentage component of the "proprietary formula" means a team has to have a significantly more difficult schedule to make up the differential, and Cocoa managed to do just that.  

[THIS_IS_DILLARD]

Somebody help me out what did cocoa do and how did it involve chaminade ? 

[DarterBlue2]

51 minutes ago, THIS_IS_DILLARD said:

Somebody help me out what did cocoa do and how did it involve chaminade ? 

If they were not cheated at Brian Piccolo, they would be 10-0. Instead they lost by a point as St. Thomas got several seconds of free time to get into field goal range and win. St. Thomas also had uncalled penalties near the end of their final drive, I believe. 

Not sure how Chaminade factors in this. 

[Ray Icaza]

51 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

If they were not cheated at Brian Piccolo, they would be 10-0. Instead they lost by a point as St. Thomas got several seconds of free time to get into field goal range and win. St. Thomas also had uncalled penalties near the end of their final drive, I believe. 

Not sure how Chaminade factors in this. 

Chaminade has been for weeks the #1 overall seed regardless of class.  If you look at the new rankings in the FHSAA website, they were leapfrogged today by Cocoa as the new #1 seed overall regardless of classification, moving CMD to #2.  Happy for Cocoa although in a head-to-head I would have to put my money on Chaminade. 

[Ray Icaza]

15 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Chaminade has been for weeks the #1 overall seed regardless of class.  If you look at the new rankings in the FHSAA website, they were leapfrogged today by Cocoa as the new #1 seed overall regardless of classification, moving CMD to #2.  Happy for Cocoa although in a head-to-head I would have to put my money on Chaminade. 

How that happened?  Something in the FHSAA recipe that doesn't exist in the MaxPrep recipe because as of today CMD is still the #1 ranked team in our state overall (excluding IMG) and #2 in the entire nation behind only Bishop Gorman.           GO FIGURE!!

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

If they were not cheated at Brian Piccolo, they would be 10-0. Instead they lost by a point as St. Thomas got several seconds of free time to get into field goal range and win. St. Thomas also had uncalled penalties near the end of their final drive, I believe.

You're spot on, Darter.   The question is this:  how did the FHSAA's proprietary formula know that Cocoa rightfully should have won that game against STA?  (Cue the sinister, mysterious music).

 

[Perspective]

30 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Chaminade has been for weeks the #1 overall seed regardless of class.  If you look at the new rankings in the FHSAA website, they were leapfrogged today by Cocoa as the new #1 seed overall regardless of classification, moving CMD to #2.  Happy for Cocoa although in a head-to-head I would have to put my money on Chaminade. 

For anyone who might be interested, this past Friday night Cocoa beat a now 5-5 Rockledge team 26-0, while Chaminade destroyed a now 2-8 (but still good enough to make the playoffs) Lakewood team 57-0.  Over the course of the season, Cocoa gave two teams their only loss and gave three teams (should have been four) one of those teams two losses.  Chaminade also gave two teams their only loss, but only one team their second loss.  On its face, Cocoa arguably played the tougher overall schedule, but as far as the computer is concerned, Cocoa still had one loss and Chaminade went undefeated. 

[Ray Icaza]

4 minutes ago, Perspective said:

You're spot on, Darter.   The question is this:  how did the FHSAA's proprietary formula know that Cocoa rightfully should have won that game against STA? 

 

Even if they had won, STA was Cocoa's toughest opponent in a very tough schedule.  But STA is no St. Francis or AHP or Central this year and CMD beat all of them so what Cocoa did in that last game to leapfrog them is the real question. 

 

[DarterBlue2]

21 minutes ago, Perspective said:

You're spot on, Darter.   The question is this:  how did the FHSAA's proprietary formula know that Cocoa rightfully should have won that game against STA?  (Cue the sinister, mysterious music).

 

 

14 minutes ago, Perspective said:

For anyone who might be interested, this past Friday night Cocoa beat a now 5-5 Rockledge team 26-0, while Chaminade destroyed a now 2-8 (but still good enough to make the playoffs) Lakewood team 57-0.  Over the course of the season, Cocoa gave two teams their only loss and gave three teams (should have been four) one of those teams two losses.  Chaminade also gave two teams their only loss, but only one team their second loss.  On its face, Cocoa arguably played the tougher overall schedule, but as far as the computer is concerned, Cocoa still had one loss and Chaminade went undefeated. 

And the above further bolster my argument that if we are to remain with the current system, interested parties need to be given the formula. There are just too many instances where things "look implausible." For all I know, they may follow the math implied by the algorithm they use to the tee. But based on what it's spitting out, I sure as heck want to see it. 

[Dr. D]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

Even if they had won, STA was Cocoa's toughest opponent in a very tough schedule.  But STA is no St. Francis or AHP or Central this year and CMD beat all of them so what Cocoa did in that last game to leapfrog them is the real question. 

 

I think the answer lies not in what Cocoa (or Chaminade) did in their last game, but what their 9 previous opponents did in their last game.  Cocoa's previous 9 opponents went 5-0 (with 4 idle), while Chaminade's previous 9 opponents went 1-3 (with 5 idle).  As a result, each of those winning teams improved their Rating, which in turn lifts their previous opponents' strength of schedule (in this case, Cocoa and Chaminade).  So I believe Cocoa's strength of schedule improved significantly enough (with respect to that of Chaminade) in the eyes of the computer algorithm to leapfrog Chaminade's previous standing.  Convoluted, I know.  At least with the previous RPI system, my hypothesis could be proven/disproven.  

[Cat_Scratch]

7 hours ago, muckboy561 said:

Should been Chaminade....

Naw, It should have been IMG.

[Ray Icaza]

5 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

I think the answer lies not in what Cocoa (or Chaminade) did in their last game, but what their 9 previous opponents did in their last game.  Cocoa's previous 9 opponents went 5-0 (with 4 idle), while Chaminade's previous 9 opponents went 1-3 (with 5 idle).  As a result, each of those winning teams improved their Rating, which in turn lifts their previous opponents' strength of schedule (in this case, Cocoa and Chaminade).  So I believe Cocoa's strength of schedule improved significantly enough (with respect to that of Chaminade) in the eyes of the computer algorithm to leapfrog Chaminade's previous standing.  Convoluted, I know.  At least with the previous RPI system, my hypothesis could be proven/disproven.  

Thanks for the clarification with how the SOS improved, with the key words you used:  "In the Eyes of the Computer Algorithm".  That seems to conflict with the "Eyes of Ray", which apparently with the same record for the 9 previous opponents in their last game coincided with the "Eyes of MaxPrep".   What was it Darter called it?  Oh Yeah, FISHY!!

[Perspective]

1 minute ago, Ray Icaza said:

Thanks for the clarification with how the SOS improved, with the key words you used:  "In the Eyes of the Computer Algorithm".  That seems to conflict with the "Eyes of Ray", which apparently with the same record for the 9 previous opponents in their last game coincided with the "Eyes of MaxPrep".   What was it Darter called it?  Oh Yeah, FISHY!!

Ray, remember, however, that MaxPreps uses point differential as a factor; Florida reportedly does not. 

[Cat_Scratch]

6 hours ago, Dr. D said:

Kudos also to Cocoa for arranging such a difficult schedule that they are the rare team to gain the #1 seed in their classification despite having a worse winning percentage than the #2 team in the classification (First Baptist and STA being the others).  The obvious bias toward the winning percentage component of the "proprietary formula" means a team has to have a significantly more difficult schedule to make up the differential, and Cocoa managed to do just that.  

I agree. Scary thing for Cocoa is HC Schneider maybe heading to Georgia to coach. He turns over a team that returns a lot of key playmakers and a possible record setting QB. If Ryan stays he likely coaches Cocoa to another great season.

[Ray Icaza]

4 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Ray, remember, however, that MaxPreps uses point differential as a factor; Florida reportedly does not. 

That is ONE factor we have gotten an admission to, but are there more??   If so, is that why so many on this forum have more credence in the MaxPrep rating than the FHSAA one. 

[Cat_Scratch]

23 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

I think the answer lies not in what Cocoa (or Chaminade) did in their last game, but what their 9 previous opponents did in their last game.  Cocoa's previous 9 opponents went 5-0 (with 4 idle), while Chaminade's previous 9 opponents went 1-3 (with 5 idle).  As a result, each of those winning teams improved their Rating, which in turn lifts their previous opponents' strength of schedule (in this case, Cocoa and Chaminade).  So I believe Cocoa's strength of schedule improved significantly enough (with respect to that of Chaminade) in the eyes of the computer algorithm to leapfrog Chaminade's previous standing.  Convoluted, I know.  At least with the previous RPI system, my hypothesis could be proven/disproven.  

To answer the question on SOS + Win / Loss and the the reason Cocoa jumped Chaminade. IMO

Cocoa's Strength of schedule is 41.8 while Chaminade's strength of schedule is 32.6.

Chaminade's Opponents win loss record is 52 wins and 42 losses.

Cocoa's Opponents win loss record is 71 wins and 28 losses. Cocoa's opponents WIN to LOSS and SOS is greater than Chaminade's. No If and or buts about it. Cocoa played a tougher schedule, not just a couple of tough games but 7 tough games and more and a few one after another.

SOS is very important for judging a rank in any system. 

In My Opinion these games Chaminade played and their SOS are what killed them in the ranking's. 

#4130 Lakewood (St. Petersburg, FL) (57-0), #8459 Avant Garde Academy (Hollywood, FL) (64-0), #11776 St. John Paul II Academy (Boca Raton, FL) (69-0).

I'm Not sure winning or losing to STA had much to play into it. STA's SOS is 39 and their opponents win/loss record is 62 wins and 35 losses. 

Cocoa's weakest SOS opponents were #1082 Titusville (FL) (28-3), #2117 Palm Bay (Melbourne, FL) (49-14), #8070 Astronaut (Titusville, FL) (63-0). Astronaut, Palm Bay and Titusville are district games and required. Rockledge was the weakest SOS non district team but a Rival game, known as the Bar-B-Que game. 

Hope this helps.

 

[Cat_Scratch]

I don't expect Cocoa to be #1 at the end of the playoffs because teams like Lake Mary/Mainland/STA/Venice/Bucholtz/etc... will have a tougher schedule.

And for the record, you can say any team can beat any team but unless they play each other you don't really know. Teams can have a bad or great game any given week.

[Ray Icaza]

41 minutes ago, Cat_Scratch said:

To answer the question on SOS + Win / Loss and the the reason Cocoa jumped Chaminade. IMO

 

Cocoa's Strength of schedule is 41.8 while Chaminade's strength of schedule is 32.6.

 

 

Chaminade's Opponents win loss record is 52 wins and 42 losses.

Cocoa's Opponents win loss record is 71 wins and 28 losses. Cocoa's opponents WIN to LOSS and SOS is greater than Chaminade's. No If and or buts about it. Cocoa played a tougher schedule, not just a couple of tough games but 7 tough games and more and a few one after another.

SOS is very important for judging a rank in any system. 

In My Opinion these games Chaminade played and their SOS are what killed them in the ranking's. 

#4130 Lakewood (St. Petersburg, FL) (57-0), #8459 Avant Garde Academy (Hollywood, FL) (64-0), #11776 St. John Paul II Academy (Boca Raton, FL) (69-0).

I'm Not sure winning or losing to STA had much to play into it. STA's SOS is 39 and their opponents win/loss record is 62 wins and 35 losses. 

Cocoa's weakest SOS opponents were #1082 Titusville (FL) (28-3), #2117 Palm Bay (Melbourne, FL) (49-14), #8070 Astronaut (Titusville, FL) (63-0). Astronaut, Palm Bay and Titusville are district games and required. Rockledge was the weakest SOS non district team but a Rival game, known as the Bar-B-Que game. 

Hope this helps.

 

Happy for Cocoa and just to be clear, I don't have a dog in the hunt.  But how they did it on the FHSAA site only is clear as mud.  Every other ranking system nationally has CMD ranked higher than Cocoa and yes, on any given day........... Again, not a betting man but my money would be on Chaminade.   So NO, the explanation didn't help me. 

[KeemD321]

3 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Even if they had won, STA was Cocoa's toughest opponent in a very tough schedule.  But STA is no St. Francis or AHP or Central this year and CMD beat all of them so what Cocoa did in that last game to leapfrog them is the real question. 

 

Nothing at all not sure how they became number one. My assumption is that Lakewood dropped CMD strength of schedule just enough for Cocoa to jump them. But I definitely don't have them as number 1. Either way it's a first for Cocoa. And a very long time for Brevard in general 

[KeemD321]

1 hour ago, Cat_Scratch said:

I agree. Scary thing for Cocoa is HC Schneider maybe heading to Georgia to coach. He turns over a team that returns a lot of key playmakers and a possible record setting QB. If Ryan stays he likely coaches Cocoa to another great season.

Cocoa will be graduating 4 OL and defensive front 7 besides their 4 star edge rusher.