Why the hurry to change the M,S,R system?

[deuce71]

I for the life of me can't understand the reason to not at least let graduating cycle go through before changing the system. The M,S,R accomplished everything it was asked for. More competitive games, newer teams competing for and winning states. BP upset over Norland doesn't happen with previous system. I can't think of one reason to go back to the old system of blowout State title games

[Nulli Secundus]

24 minutes ago, deuce71 said:

I for the life of me can't understand the reason to not at least let graduating cycle go through before changing the system. The M,S,R accomplished everything it was asked for. More competitive games, newer teams competing for and winning states. BP upset over Norland doesn't happen with previous system. I can't think of one reason to go back to the old system of blowout State title games

Welcome to the board!

[Nulli Secundus]

32 minutes ago, deuce71 said:

I for the life of me can't understand the reason to not at least let graduating cycle go through before changing the system. The M,S,R accomplished everything it was asked for. More competitive games, newer teams competing for and winning states. BP upset over Norland doesn't happen with previous system. I can't think of one reason to go back to the old system of blowout State title games

To answer one of your questions, that stems from the upcoming classification cycle for the new season in which things are set to change anyway.  However, that "emergency" meeting was rushed and chaotic.

[Nulli Secundus]

@DarterBlue2, stop laughing!

[DarterBlue2]

24 minutes ago, Nulli Secundus said:

@DarterBlue2, stop laughing!

It's all very, very funny. I hate to say it, but the Georgia and Alabama equivalents are superior to our governing body. 

[Nulli Secundus]

8 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

It's all very, very funny. I hate to say it, but the Georgia and Alabama equivalents are superior to our governing body. 

Agreed.  That meeting got harder to watch as time progressed.  However, some great points were brought up individually for and against the current system along with the proposal(s) for something different.

[nolebull813]

The problem with this system is the finals are actually semi finals games. 
 

9 classes was an embarrassment. 

Stop punishing South Florida for having more talent than the rest of the state. Every team operates under the same rules. You can attract talent just like anyone else. But it shouldn’t be South Florida’s fault their talent is better than North Florida. 
 

Because it sounds like the only way to stop the crying is to split the state into 3. North, Central and South. And each region only plays teams in their region. Because you won’t stop hearing the crying from North FL they can’t compete 

[deuce71]

1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

The problem with this system is the finals are actually semi finals games. 
 

 

9 classes was an embarrassment. 

 

Stop punishing South Florida for having more talent than the rest of the state. Every team operates under the same rules. You can attract talent just like anyone else. But it shouldn’t be South Florida’s fault their talent is better than North Florida. 
 

Because it sounds like the only way to stop the crying is to split the state into 3. North, Central and South. And each region only plays teams in their region. Because you won’t stop hearing the crying from North FL they can’t compete 

How was the S,R,M considered punishment for South Florida? They had representation in every metro division state final. Winning most of them with only they lost a major upset. The only difference compared to the 1A-8A is that they actually playing comparable comp.

[gatorman-uf]

2 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

The problem with this system is the finals are actually semi finals games. 
 

9 classes was an embarrassment. 

Stop punishing South Florida for having more talent than the rest of the state. Every team operates under the same rules. You can attract talent just like anyone else. But it shouldn’t be South Florida’s fault their talent is better than North Florida. 
 

Because it sounds like the only way to stop the crying is to split the state into 3. North, Central and South. And each region only plays teams in their region. Because you won’t stop hearing the crying from North FL they can’t compete 

It is not like North Florida did anything with new system anyway. Only two and half teams (not counting 1R teams) North of Gainesville made the championships the last two years. Mandarin, FSU High, and Bradford (they are barely North of Gainesville). Honestly, I still prefer a real promotion/relegation system, but I agree with the original post. It seems way too soon to know if the system is working and going back to the old system seems like a retread.

I guess I would ask what would have been different if we had 1A-7A (with Rural separate). Is Chaminade not winning? Is STA losing? Cocoa? It seems like most of the teams that won would have won in any classification. Who was denied winning a championship who would otherwise would have won if we didn't have it as a Metro/Suburban?

[TigerKing]

long time lurker…

 

would have love to have had

rural-smallest 32 teams 

suburban 1-4

metro 1-4

8 team open division (invitational)

 

yes that is 10 champs but considering the amount of schools the FHSAA represents compared to surrounding states, it would be fine. 

[h8r]

part of the proposal won 9-4, and then they dice up the rest of it.   

I think they jumped the gun on squashing this new idea, some tweaks to it, but it really wasnt an awful idea with dist tournament in football. trying to find games would be the tall task for those dominate programs.  and then finding 2 games if you didnt make the tournament, also an interesting mess.

a solution would be those 2 weeks if your not in, are mandatory district play.  have to have 8 team district, which is what everyone really wants, top 4 play for title, bottom 4 figure it out and play.

i thought it was interesting to see they snuck in mandatory bye for everyone week 10 and play dist tourney 11 and 12....so schools would get 2 byes in the season....why?  week 10 in florida, no games.  smh...

going backwards is A typical of the fhsaa, seriously, eveyrone hated the old way, most hate the new way, others would hate the proposed system.  

cant please anyone or shouldnt even try to please anyone, figure it out and stand by it.

maybe the board should be in charge of figuring it all out instead of just knocking holes in the plan.  some of them have zero business being on the board anyways.....

[badbird]

11 minutes ago, h8r said:

a solution would be those 2 weeks if your not in, are mandatory district play.  have to have 8 team district, which is what everyone really wants, top 4 play for title, bottom 4 figure it out and play.

I was going to suggest that to our district if the plan went through.  I actually think the fhsaa should mandate it if it ever passes.  I like the district tournament idea.  I know really good teams will struggle to find games but the counties can make people play each other like Orange County does.  Apopka has no problem finding games and they are pretty good.

 

Larger districts, take out the 8 juggernauts and get a true state champ, don't have to play a district schedule if you are bad so no reason to be independent.  I really liked the proposed plan with some tweaks.  Not shocked they decided to go back to what sucked before.  Great job FHSAA

[nolebull813]

3 hours ago, TigerKing said:

long time lurker…

 

would have love to have had

rural-smallest 32 teams 

suburban 1-4

metro 1-4

8 team open division (invitational)

 

yes that is 10 champs but considering the amount of schools the FHSAA represents compared to surrounding states, it would be fine. 

No 10 classes for 500 teams would have been an abomination. 
 

The fact we have a rural class is embarrassing. Hawthorne and Madison County would have been favored over OTC and Mooney in my opinion. 
 

Florida needs 5 classes realistically with 6 being the absolute max. 
 

6 classes with 500 teams is 83 per class. With 16 districts per class that’s 5.2 teams per district. Please tell me how that’s unreasonable????

[TigerKing]

1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

No 10 classes for 500 teams would have been an abomination. 
 

The fact we have a rural class is embarrassing. Hawthorne and Madison County would have been favored over OTC and Mooney in my opinion. 
 

Florida needs 5 classes realistically with 6 being the absolute max. 
 

6 classes with 500 teams is 83 per class. With 16 districts per class that’s 5.2 teams per district. Please tell me how that’s unreasonable????

ok 6 classes for the entire state. 

 

how would you divide each class? all public and privates together? based strictly off enrollment numbers? i am genuinely curious to what you believe is the solution. 

[Tigerskin]

Since this passed  time to go Independent  and make our own sch. So they Dont want the open but you want teams to play district games how is that fair. The power schools want districts so they beat the team by 50 every year and the lake their players the next year.Why Dont you put the teams in a district who want the mandatory games and let the other schools who want the freedom to choose their games go to a district we’re they Dont have mandatory games but use the rankings to choose district champs.

[nolebull813]

4 hours ago, TigerKing said:

ok 6 classes for the entire state. 

 

how would you divide each class? all public and privates together? based strictly off enrollment numbers? i am genuinely curious to what you believe is the solution. 

I would do enrollment simply because every public team has the same luxury of attracting talent. And for the people who say what about the public teams in the middle of nowhere that aren’t close to a lot of talent I would say sorry. Teams in areas with lots of talent shouldn’t be punished by playing in watered down brackets because you have no talent 

[nolebull813]

4 hours ago, TigerKing said:

ok 6 classes for the entire state. 

 

how would you divide each class? all public and privates together? based strictly off enrollment numbers? i am genuinely curious to what you believe is the solution. 

Hell I actually wouldn’t care how they did it as long as there was only 6 classes. Public/Private. Metro/Suburban. Animal mascots/human mascots 

wouldn’t matter to me one bit if there was only max 6 classes in the state 

[deuce71]

18 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

I would do enrollment simply because every public team has the same luxury of attracting talent. And for the people who say what about the public teams in the middle of nowhere that aren’t close to a lot of talent I would say sorry. Teams in areas with lots of talent shouldn’t be punished by playing in watered down brackets because you have no talent 

You still didn't answer how were they actually punished? What schools actually suffered from this system? Did they have a shot of winning in the previous system? And why are you okay with places with less to pick from being punished but not the bigger areas?

[CoachGraham]

42 minutes ago, deuce71 said:

You still didn't answer how were they actually punished? What schools actually suffered from this system? Did they have a shot of winning in the previous system? And why are you okay with places with less to pick from being punished but not the bigger areas?

I know you're new (as am I relatively), but I like you! 

 

I tend to agree with your sentiment...

[TigerKing]

20 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

I would do enrollment simply because every public team has the same luxury of attracting talent. And for the people who say what about the public teams in the middle of nowhere that aren’t close to a lot of talent I would say sorry. Teams in areas with lots of talent shouldn’t be punished by playing in watered down brackets because you have no talent 

how are they punished? 

if there was a multiplier i wouldn't have as big of an issue going away from metro/suburban 

as it stands today, metro schools have a big advantage to "attract" talent

[Coach O]

Whew!!! My son would never play for some of you coaches. What message are we teaching kids that winning a participation trophy is ok? Teach your child to be the best he can be and sometimes that means playing the best.  Ever heard of David and Goliath,,, hell have you heard of Bradford and Norland…. 
 

football is not for everyone; that’s why each school has multiple sports. Also what about softball, baseball, swimmming, volleyball, golf, bowling, lacrosse, you do know that most down south schools get a running clock in most if not all these sports. But you don’t hear them complaints, they simply play another sport!
 

this year we had GEOGRAPHICAL AREA  CHAMPIONS. Not

STATE CHAMPIONS,. Any outsider that reads this- We have suburban champions. That really says it all

The State champions means what is says - The “state of Florida” Champions!! Glad we are going back to that model

 

[Coach O]

You do not have to play football!

[TigerKing]

40 minutes ago, Coach O said:

Whew!!! My son would never play for some of you coaches. What message are we teaching kids that winning a participation trophy is ok? Teach your child to be the best he can be and sometimes that means playing the best.  Ever heard of David and Goliath,,, hell have you heard of Bradford and Norland…. 
 

football is not for everyone; that’s why each school has multiple sports. Also what about softball, baseball, swimmming, volleyball, golf, bowling, lacrosse, you do know that most down south schools get a running clock in most if not all these sports. But you don’t hear them complaints, they simply play another sport!
 

this year we had GEOGRAPHICAL AREA  CHAMPIONS. Not

STATE CHAMPIONS,. Any outsider that reads this- We have suburban champions. That really says it all

The State champions means what is says - The “state of Florida” Champions!! Glad we are going back to that model

 

some of these schools are only “Goliath” because they have 20 schools in a 10 mile radius to “attract” kids from. that doesn’t happen in lake city Columbia where there is only 1 school in a 20 mile radius. 

[nolebull813]

2 hours ago, TigerKing said:

some of these schools are only “Goliath” because they have 20 schools in a 10 mile radius to “attract” kids from. that doesn’t happen in lake city Columbia where there is only 1 school in a 20 mile radius. 

But they are under the same rules. Columbia could attract talent from all over if the players were talented AND wanted to go there. Even the rural schools are close to each other relatively speaking. 
 

The issue is there isn’t a lot of talent up North. The South has talented oozing out everywhere. Talent literally all over the place. North Florida not so much. 

Kids that transfer to Chaminade or STA most likely come from the same proximity as kids who are the same distance to Lake City from Live Oak, Branford, Fort White, Alachua etc etc. 

Only difference is the kids going to Chaminade and STA are D1 studs and all those other places up North not so much. But that isn’t South Floridas fault 

[nolebull813]

12 hours ago, deuce71 said:

You still didn't answer how were they actually punished? What schools actually suffered from this system? Did they have a shot of winning in the previous system? And why are you okay with places with less to pick from being punished but not the bigger areas?

Teams are being punished because the system is so watered down that the competition suffers. The top dogs are gonna win no matter the system, but 9 classes is an embarrassment. If it was 6 like it should be the same top teams will win, only the early playoffs games would be infinitely better. All the horrible teams would be gone by round 1. 
 

It’s pathetic that the state top 10 has teams from 7 or 8 classes. That is a travesty