Metro/Suburban Plan voted on. PASSED

[h8r]

34 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Truth hurts Columbia. Please explain how Seminole got placed in Metro when they were in suburb with original idea. Maybe so Lee county could escape and get its 2 members to vote for separating Florida in A  and C track football divisions.   While you are adding fake titles...why dont you just Create 286 classifications so all of you can be fake state champs. Participation trophies for all country bumkin teams. 

 

im trying real hard to figure out why you care so much?  is your team in sub urban and your super butt hurt? or is your team in metro and you can figure out why you wont win a state title now?  if the answer is neither, you are really emotional about this.  

suburban doesnt help the suburban teams as much as everyone/anyone thinks.  metro still will be majority of same teams winning anyways.  

it hurts the middle of the road teams in both classes and lumps them with alot of the same districts they were already in

or

lumps them with teams they were not going to beat regardless of any class.

the 5-5 teams will still be 5-5

the 9-1 teams will still be 9-1

get rid of school choice, which wont happen, is the only real solution to the recruiting issue we have in the state.  put back in the 365day mandatory sitout period for transfers. major major fines for coaches, suspensions, etc.

may get something straight here.

[Hwy17]

6 minutes ago, h8r said:

im trying real hard to figure out why you care so much?  is your team in sub urban and your super butt hurt? or is your team in metro and you can figure out why you wont win a state title now?  if the answer is neither, you are really emotional about this.  

suburban doesnt help the suburban teams as much as everyone/anyone thinks.  metro still will be majority of same teams winning anyways.  

it hurts the middle of the road teams in both classes and lumps them with alot of the same districts they were already in

or

lumps them with teams they were not going to beat regardless of any class.

the 5-5 teams will still be 5-5

the 9-1 teams will still be 9-1

get rid of school choice, which wont happen, is the only real solution to the recruiting issue we have in the state.  put back in the 365day mandatory sitout period for transfers. major major fines for coaches, suspensions, etc.

may get something straight here.

The real problem hasn't been fixed and I suspect in the near future there will be another change to "make the system better". 

[DisabledAccount]

10 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

The real problem hasn't been fixed and I suspect in the near future there will be another change to "make the system better". 

And I hope that's the case 

 

This system will need updates after the cycle just like the classifications have needed an overhaul for a decade 

 

We won't know where the biggest issues with it are until we see it in action

[badbird]

22 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

And what do you suggest they do? All I hear is "this plan sucks" 

 

If you have something better than share it

It does suck and I have suggested an alternative many times.  I'm in agreement they should move teams up and down based off performance.  Where you live and the number of kids in your school is not as important as what 22 kids are on the field.

[badbird]

There are also way too many classes and this plan just added another class.   That will fix the parity issue for sure and cut the districts down so more shitty teams make the playoffs.

[badbird]

Seminole County replacing Lee County is shady as f***

[Ray Icaza]

38 minutes ago, badbird said:

There are also way too many classes and this plan just added another class.   That will fix the parity issue for sure and cut the districts down so more shitty teams make the playoffs.

School Choice being the elephant in the room, the FHSAA has nothing but poor options.  That said, does one prefer a system where now a few more shitty teams make the playoffs that are still won by those with strong programs.  Or the UP/DOWN offered by some where the bottom two classifications are only the shitty teams with 2 of them actually WINNING A TITLE.  Given these two options or the do nothing one, big numbers of folks will be unhappy. Or maybe you had a different plan.

[Ray Icaza]

2 minutes ago, badbird said:

Seminole County replacing Lee County is shady as f***

AGREED!!   What is even shadier is "SCHOOL CHOICE".  What genius handed us that mess. 

[Nulli Secundus]

2 minutes ago, badbird said:

Seminole County replacing Lee County is shady as f***

RIGHT!  Even the way the "density" language was introduced was wrong.

[badbird]

17 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

AGREED!!   What is even shadier is "SCHOOL CHOICE".  What genius handed us that mess. 

I'm ok with school choice.  However I think school choice should be made entering 9th grade and after that you have to move or sit out a year.

[Ray Icaza]

1 minute ago, badbird said:

I'm ok with school choice.  However I think school choice should be made entering 9th grade and after that you have to move or sit out a year.

I am definitely for School Choice, for school at any point in a student's development no matter the grade.  But unless the family moves into the zoned school, athletes sit a year and all the consequences that were previously in place follow.

[Perspective]

We need to figure out some way to differentiate between "school choice" and "team choice." 

[Nulli Secundus]

11 minutes ago, Perspective said:

We need to figure out some way to differentiate between "school choice" and "team choice." 

That's easy.  The hard part is enforcing honesty, LOL.

[gatorman-uf]

2 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

School Choice being the elephant in the room, the FHSAA has nothing but poor options.  That said, does one prefer a system where now a few more shitty teams make the playoffs that are still won by those with strong programs.  Or the UP/DOWN offered by some where the bottom two classifications are only the shitty teams with 2 of them actually WINNING A TITLE.  Given these two options or the do nothing one, big numbers of folks will be unhappy. Or maybe you had a different plan.

Ray,

We could still do a promotion/relegation system, just make the top classes smaller (32 teams) and the smallest class would be large 128+ teams. While the team that wins the lowest classification won't historically be good, they will have have had a good enough season to beat other similar teams. Just like when many of the smallest classifications have state champions that we know wouldn't make it a regional final in any other class, but they are still state champions.

[Jesse]

7 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Ray,

We could still do a promotion/relegation system, just make the top classes smaller (32 teams) and the smallest class would be large 128+ teams. While the team that wins the lowest classification won't historically be good, they will have have had a good enough season to beat other similar teams. Just like when many of the smallest classifications have state champions that we know wouldn't make it a regional final in any other class, but they are still state champions.

Smallest class has madison,  trinity christian,  Chaminade Madonna,  all destroyed bigger teams easily . Who would keep them from regional final? Big Clown

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

We need to figure out some way to differentiate between "school choice" and "team choice." 

Wow, that is a really good one.  If one analyzed the total transfers each and every year which percentage would be higher and would it even be close?

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, gatorman-uf said:

Ray,

We could still do a promotion/relegation system, just make the top classes smaller (32 teams) and the smallest class would be large 128+ teams. While the team that wins the lowest classification won't historically be good, they will have have had a good enough season to beat other similar teams. Just like when many of the smallest classifications have state champions that we know wouldn't make it a regional final in any other class, but they are still state champions.

We will compete in whatever format is dictated to us as Osceola has seldom had much of a voice in any policy making by the FHSAA.  I do not agreed that the bottom third of your plan playing for a championship would beat current regional champs of any of the current classifications as we have a lot of lousy teams out there, so we have a difference of opinion in that regard.  As I have repeatedly said, the available options to fix the real problem of TEAM CHOICE (Perspective's term) are non-existent.  This plan won't and neither will yours.   Yours will make about 250 pitiful programs very happy.

[Floridaatlantic1]

So how long until we figure out that the same teams will win the suburban title every year just like now in current set up.  I was looking at board of directors.  How come no one represents Central Florida Orlando area. No wonder they all voted for this dumpster fire and screwed Seminole county instead of lee or Polk or volusia county. 

[h8r]

20 hours ago, Perspective said:

We need to figure out some way to differentiate between "school choice" and "team choice." 

and all these coaches moving to texas, georgia, alabama, south carolina, for the big cash they spend on the coaches supplement/pay increase/booster club check, whatever you want to call it, 

if florida ever moves to a high paying coaches state, you think school choice and honesty is bad now,,,,,,coach makes 100k and he doesnt want to get fired(who does at any pay, but hear me out) you dont think they will go to every measure possible to steal kids from the next school?!?!?!??!?!!  florida becomes the wild wild west and anything goes.  

[Hwy17]

I've said a million times on this board I have no problem with school choice for academic reasons but it has become team choice. I say limit the number of transfers a program can except in.

[VeniceIndianFan]

32 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

I've said a million times on this board I have no problem with school choice for academic reasons but it has become team choice. I say limit the number of transfers a program can except in.

Agree with you, but how would a school differentiate between a student transferring for academic reasons, or "team choice" if the student's grades are good?

[Ray Icaza]

54 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Agree with you, but how would a school differentiate between a student transferring for academic reasons, or "team choice" if the student's grades are good?

If they don't move into the zoned district for that school they would sit for one year to play sports period, so no determination needed.  The fact that they would still choose School Choice with that rule tells you the academics are the reason which is why it should be allowed at any point.

[gatorman-uf]

On 2/28/2022 at 8:30 PM, Tigerskin said:

No then don’t be scared if the metro schools might do the same thing we shouldn’t need this split for suburban , seriously you think Hamilton County Florida 14,500 ever has a chance against Pahokee in Palm Beach

Saying Pahokee is part of Palm Beach County is technically true, but Pahokee and Belle Glade are completely different than the rest of Palm Beach. They might be in the same county, but it would be easier for any player to go play at any of the top tier schools in Palm Beach than go to Pahokee or Glades Central. 

As for Hamilton County, unless Alex Brown is walking onto the field, Hamilton County has little chance of competing until the community as a whole gets it together. Hamilton County one of the consistently worse schools in Florida. 

[gatorman-uf]

On 2/28/2022 at 8:35 PM, Tigerskin said:

I have a question how did y’all drop from either 3 or 4 A down to 1 A did a lot of kids leave the school.

Pahokee has always been "rural" 1A school. The first few years of 1A though they did not want to make the trips for district games so they chose to be in a higher classification.

[gatorman-uf]

On 2/28/2022 at 9:18 PM, Tigerskin said:

Do you know anything about 1 A ? It was created because the small rural schools wanted to get away from 2 powerhouse private schools in Trinity Christian an University Christian nobody knew you would have former State Champs from 3A and 4A now drop down Union County, Madison County, Pahokee , Taylor County all won State in Bigger Classes .Also wasn’t Ft White once 3 A and their is rumors before this Metro/ Surburban that Suwannee County was wanting to create a charter school to drop dow to 1 A. So the small rural schools will have to go independent if things stay the same. You can take the 3 top schools I mentioned and add in Hawthorne who had like what 10 big time transfers and is in a county of 280,000 and you next 20 out 20 State Champs will come from that group of teams. So if you think that is fair then Lake City Columbia shouldn’t complain about the schools in the Metro .

Ummm, the rural small school requirement wasn't to ensure that every school won a state championship that previously hadn't. The original requirements were that your county/city had to be recognized as rural by a specific state agency and had to less than 500 students (eventually increased to 600 to ensure enough schools in classification).

Yes, Union County won state championships in 1996 at 3A (which was really 2A, since there was no 1A at the time).
Yes, Madison County has most likely manipulated the system to become a 1A school.
Yes, Pahokee won a 2B state championship (go look at the schools in 2B, it is almost every team in 1A now).
Yes, Taylor County won a state championship back in 1997, at 3A (2nd smallest classification as there was no 1A at the time).

Fort White was 3A, but their enrollment has dropped them below 600 (as did several teams that same year).
Classifications have been based on size. Schools will sometimes move up and some will move down based on enrollment, so finding fault that a team now meets the classification standard and you don't like it because it will make it harder for your team, seems very cry baby-ish.