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Central, Northwestern opting in... Columbus, Booker T. opting out


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Well hat tip my colleague Adam Lichtenstein at the Sun-Sentinel for getting the scoop on what Miami-Dade is doing. Most of their schools are opting out. Only five schools are in including only two of the four defending champs are opting in.

 

Other schools opting in include Homestead, Edison and Miami Palmetto.

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54 minutes ago, Joshua Wilson said:

Well hat tip my colleague Adam Lichtenstein at the Sun-Sentinel for getting the scoop on what Miami-Dade is doing. Most of their schools are opting out. Only five schools are in including only two of the four defending champs are opting in.

 

Other schools opting in include Homestead, Edison and Miami Palmetto.

Surprised Columbus opting out, I thought private schools would have an easier time trying to manage the social distancing and mandatory masks than publics would since privates aren't bound by the county when it comes to those decisions 

 

At least that's how I've always understood it to be

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7 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Surprised Columbus opting out, I thought private schools would have an easier time trying to manage the social distancing and mandatory masks than publics would since privates aren't bound by the county when it comes to those decisions 

 

At least that's how I've always understood it to be

It is not even that... 

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2 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

Can someone please clue me in to why some of the south Florida schools are not agreeing to participate in the playoffs? What is different about the playoffs than in the standard schedule of games. :unsure:

So what happen in a nutshell is this:

Private and Charter schools are left in to choose on their own pretty much with exceptions I mention in a moment.

All three counties have a county AD/conference of schools that usually coordinate things together, etc.

Palm Beach made the move first and opted all their schools out.

Broward with the BCAA went the same route except their two private schools that are members which is Cardinal Gibbons and Aquinas which they are opting in.

Miami-Dade with the GMAC (which includes Columbus as the only private school member, no charters are members), they left the decision in the hands of each school. What it came down to is that Columbus and Booker T. wanted more guaranteed games. Its crazy to say that given that the FHSAA is allowing teams to play regular season games through December 19, especially if a team gets knocked out of the playoffs.

Hopefully that helps some.

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1 minute ago, Joshua Wilson said:

So what happen in a nutshell is this:

Private and Charter schools are left in to choose on their own pretty much with exceptions I mention in a moment.

All three counties have a county AD/conference of schools that usually coordinate things together, etc.

Palm Beach made the move first and opted all their schools out.

Broward with the BCAA went the same route except their two private schools that are members which is Cardinal Gibbons and Aquinas which they are opting in.

Miami-Dade with the GMAC (which includes Columbus as the only private school member, no charters are members), they left the decision in the hands of each school. What it came down to is that Columbus and Booker T. wanted more guaranteed games. Its crazy to say that given that the FHSAA is allowing teams to play regular season games through December 19, especially if a team gets knocked out of the playoffs.

Hopefully that helps some.

Probably feel it's easier to schedule games with a certain team if you opt out because otherwise say Booker T Washington wanted to play Columbus but if both opt in one might lose in first round other may go 3 rounds deep

 

By opting out it's easier to schedule as a team isn't sitting back waiting for teams to get eliminated to go schedule someone if that makes sense @Proseteye

 

 

 

So wait Joshua did AHP opt out then? 

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I still don't understand "WHY" any team or group would opt out of the playoffs. What is the purpose? I understand that they are opting out but have no idea why they are opting out? Does this have something to do with the virus? If it does then what is the difference in continuing to play playoff games after playing regular season games. Does the virus differentiate between playoff and regular season? Just asking. ;)

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28 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

I still don't understand "WHY" any team or group would opt out of the playoffs. What is the purpose? I understand that they are opting out but have no idea why they are opting out? Does this have something to do with the virus? If it does then what is the difference in continuing to play playoff games after playing regular season games. Does the virus differentiate between playoff and regular season? Just asking. ;)

Maybe because in a postseason they don't get to control what county a team is from 

 

If your playing as a independent the individual school can schedule where they never leave their county if they choose to which is sometimes easier because the counties control certain aspects that may not be guaranteed in a postseason game involving other counties 

 

 

Besides I still stand by the fact that a postseason right now is crazy when we still have no Championship site and no plan but whatever I didn't expect the FHSAA to think logically after their previous meetings and what amounted to clear cut questionable leadership by the FHSAA and poor motivation for much of the decision making 

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2 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Maybe because in a postseason they don't get to control what county a team is from 

 

If your playing as a independent the individual school can schedule where they never leave their county if they choose to which is sometimes easier because the counties control certain aspects that may not be guaranteed in a postseason game involving other counties 

 

 

Besides I still stand by the fact that a postseason right now is crazy when we still have no Championship site and no plan but whatever I didn't expect the FHSAA to think logically after their previous meetings and what amounted to clear cut questionable leadership by the FHSAA and poor motivation for much of the decision making 

So, are there going to be playoffs? If there is no championship but there will be playoffs I guess the last round of the playoffs will be where everything ends. I'm wondering if the Citris Bowl or Camping World Bowl, as it's now known, is still available? Was it the FHSAA's job to secure the championship site and prepare everything? I don't normally follow this stuff on a regular basis.

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The "opt out" option was designed for teams/counties that couldn't start the season when everyone else could (because of COVIID) to still get in a full seasons' worth of games.   Also, there was some thought that a team who had only played 4 or 5 games by the time the playoffs started might be at a competitive disadvantage compared to teams that had played 9 or 10 games.   So, the FHSAA allowed teams to opt out of the playoffs/state series.  In exchange, teams that opted out could continue to play games through the end of the year (more or less).  For example, south Florida teams that weren't able to start their regular season until October could still get in a "full season" by opting out of the playoffs and continuing to play other opt-out teams while the "opt in" teams were playing playoff games,, with the possibility of some sort of county playoffs or "bowl game" at the very end of their expanded season.  

The decision to opt out or stay in really came down to a decision of whether a coach or county AD wanted to give the kids 10 +/- games or, alternatively, about half the number of regular season games, but a chance to play for a state championship. 

I think that's it in a nutshell. 

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1 hour ago, Perspective said:

The "opt out" option was designed for teams/counties that couldn't start the season when everyone else could (because of COVIID) to still get in a full seasons' worth of games.   Also, there was some thought that a team who had only played 4 or 5 games by the time the playoffs started might be at a competitive disadvantage compared to teams that had played 9 or 10 games.   So, the FHSAA allowed teams to opt out of the playoffs/state series.  In exchange, teams that opted out could continue to play games through the end of the year (more or less).  For example, south Florida teams that weren't able to start their regular season until October could still get in a "full season" by opting out of the playoffs and continuing to play other opt-out teams while the "opt in" teams were playing playoff games,, with the possibility of some sort of county playoffs or "bowl game" at the very end of their expanded season.  

The decision to opt out or stay in really came down to a decision of whether a coach or county AD wanted to give the kids 10 +/- games or, alternatively, about half the number of regular season games, but a chance to play for a state championship. 

I think that's it in a nutshell. 

Thanks :)

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So, you have major players not participating. AND, you have MASSIVE impact on what the playoff brackets will look like with so many entire districts not participating. Who are the few teams from these counties who do participate going to play in the first 2-3 rounds? 

There is also the matter of how teams end up being forced into shutting down for two weeks. If we're a couple of weeks into the playoffs, and it's Wednesday and there's a major showdown on Friday, and a few kids recently called up from JV end up testing positive, that ELIMINATES the team as they must shut down for two weeks...in the middle of the playoffs. What, exactly, are the thresholds for forcing a shut down? Are there ways certain schools in certain counties may be able to "game" the system and avoid positive tests coming to light and prompting a Covid shut down? I strongly suspect there will be ways around this. And I have a feeling that ambitious programs that have managed to already have THREE games under their belts as of today have probably figured this out. Some schools and/or counties will be RELENTLESS in pursuit of positive cases and forcing shut downs; others may literally look the other way at all times.

All things considered, I don't think they should be naming state champions this year. Perhaps they can play a state series of some kind and award some other sort of title to whoever wins that. But, it shouldn't be a typical state title that goes in the record books alongside all of the other titles through 2019.

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2 minutes ago, skyway said:

So, you have major players not participating. AND, you have MASSIVE impact on what the playoff brackets will look like with so many entire districts not participating. Who are the few teams from these counties who do participate going to play in the first 2-3 rounds? 

There is also the matter of how teams end up being forced into shutting down for two weeks. If we're a couple of weeks into the playoffs, and it's Wednesday and there's a major showdown on Friday, and a few kids recently called up from JV end up testing positive, that ELIMINATES the team as they must shut down for two weeks...in the middle of the playoffs. What, exactly, are the thresholds for forcing a shut down? Are there ways certain schools in certain counties may be able to "game" the system and avoid positive tests coming to light and prompting a Covid shut down? I strongly suspect there will be ways around this. And I have a feeling that ambitious programs that have managed to already have THREE games under their belts as of today have probably figured this out. Some schools and/or counties will be RELENTLESS in pursuit of positive cases and forcing shut downs; others may literally look the other way at all times.

All things considered, I don't think they should be naming state champions this year. Perhaps they can play a state series of some kind and award some other sort of title to whoever wins that. But, it shouldn't be a typical state title that goes in the record books alongside all of the other titles through 2019.

Regardless of what happens, any team that wins a "state championship" in 2020 is going to have a big COVID-19 asterisk next to their name.    More importantly, from now until the end of time, any time someone comes onto this message board and mentions that a particular team won the 2020 state championship , ColumbiaFan and his heirs will be around to remind the readers that the team's not worthy of being called a state champion because many of the south Florida teams did not participate in the playoffs. :D

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16 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Can someone please clue me in to why some of the south Florida schools are not agreeing to participate in the playoffs? What is different about the playoffs than in the standard schedule of games. :unsure:

From my understanding. Palm Beach county didn't want to play any out of county games, and all of their games will be played at 3 high schools (all that have field turf). So, Pahokee and Glades Central will play all their games at Wellington High, probably with Seminole Ridge, Royal Palm Beach, and Palm Beach Central since those schools would be considered Western Palm Beach county. 

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38 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Regardless of what happens, any team that wins a "state championship" in 2020 is going to have a big COVID-19 asterisk next to their name.    More importantly, from now until the end of time, any time someone comes onto this message board and mentions that a particular team won the 2020 state championship , ColumbiaFan and his heirs will be around to remind the readers that the team's not worthy of being called a state champion because many of the south Florida teams did not participate in the playoffs. :D

It's ridiculous to claim a team that beats the other teams playing in the state championship playoffs is not a state champion. Are you not a state champion if you beat a team in the championship game that is depleted by injuries? You can only play the team on the other side of the field; you can't control how they got there or who they brought to play. As for an asterisk, that's pure nonsense. Is there an asterisk next to Henry Aaron's name in the record books. When Babe Ruth played, the teams played about 144 games a season. Aaron played in 162 games a season. Should all baseball records have an asterisk if a player had the opportunity to play more games than the previous record holder? No! You live with the situation at the time. 

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19 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

It's ridiculous to claim a team that beats the other teams playing in the state championship playoffs is not a state champion. Are you not a state champion if you beat a team in the championship game that is depleted by injuries? You can only play the team on the other side of the field; you can't control how they got there or who they brought to play. As for an asterisk, that's pure nonsense. Is there an asterisk next to Henry Aaron's name in the record books. When Babe Ruth played, the teams played about 144 games a season. Aaron played in 162 games a season. Should all baseball records have an asterisk if a player had the opportunity to play more games than the previous record holder? No! You live with the situation at the time. 

Injuries have always been a part of the game. They've never been irrelevant, but have never fully negated anyone's title. Covid-19, and the wildly inconsistent response and restrictions imposed is an entirely different animal. For several reasons, not the least of which is the fact that almost the entire South bracket of playoff classifications has opted out entirely. They didn't opt out because of any reasons that have been encountered at any other times in our lives. They're opting out because we are in the middle of a global pandemic which will have killed over a million people and continues to rage unabated as we speak.

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24 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

It's ridiculous to claim a team that beats the other teams playing in the state championship playoffs is not a state champion. Are you not a state champion if you beat a team in the championship game that is depleted by injuries? You can only play the team on the other side of the field; you can't control how they got there or who they brought to play. As for an asterisk, that's pure nonsense. Is there an asterisk next to Henry Aaron's name in the record books. When Babe Ruth played, the teams played about 144 games a season. Aaron played in 162 games a season. Should all baseball records have an asterisk if a player had the opportunity to play more games than the previous record holder? No! You live with the situation at the time. 

Hornet, I agree that any team that participates in the state series and wins their final (championship) game will be worthy of being called a state champion.  I also know that the vast majority of people living in Miami-Dade and Broward Counties will never be willing to recognize those teams as state champions because those teams will not have beaten a south Florida team.   Given the fact that south Florida teams won 7 of 8 state titles last year, they may have a point.   I don't think the asterisk will actually appear in the record books; but there will be a mental asterisk.  To borrow your baseball analogy, I think it would be more like the asterisks that old school baseball fans attached to Roger Maris' record 61 homeruns  because he played in a few more games than did the Bambino. 

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16 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Hornet, I agree that any team that participates in the state series and wins their final (championship) game will be worthy of being called a state champion.  I also know that the vast majority of people living in Miami-Dade and Broward Counties will never be willing to recognize those teams as state champions because those teams will not have beaten a south Florida team.   Given the fact that south Florida teams won 7 of 8 state titles last year, they may have a point.   I don't think the asterisk will actually appear in the record books; but there will be a mental asterisk.  To borrow your baseball analogy, I think it would be more like the asterisks that old school baseball fans attached to Roger Maris' record 61 homeruns  because he played in a few more games than did the Bambino. 

Fortunately it seems the reigning champions or projected favorites from SFL in each class will be playing this season so it's likely as long as the brackets are similar setup to normal that we will see a North team having to beat a South Florida team to win state

 

If North team can beat SFL they earned it but no say a matchup of St Augustine vs Gainesville ends up a state championship game then no calling either team a state champion is ridiculous and even though I'm sure some out there will not like it but that's the reality

 

A Championship only means as much as the team you beat to win it, some programs are okay with some paper Championship but to me I rather win no titles than claim some title where I know I beat a team that in a normal format season is maybe the 30th best team in their Classification 

 

I wouldn't be proud of that as claiming the title would get my program the same amount of respect it gets most years (practically nothing)

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4 hours ago, Perspective said:

Hornet, I agree that any team that participates in the state series and wins their final (championship) game will be worthy of being called a state champion.  I also know that the vast majority of people living in Miami-Dade and Broward Counties will never be willing to recognize those teams as state champions because those teams will not have beaten a south Florida team.   Given the fact that south Florida teams won 7 of 8 state titles last year, they may have a point.   I don't think the asterisk will actually appear in the record books; but there will be a mental asterisk.  To borrow your baseball analogy, I think it would be more like the asterisks that old school baseball fans attached to Roger Maris' record 61 homeruns  because he played in a few more games than did the Bambino. 

The kids in South Florida are missing out on the playoffs and that's a shame. Should we penalize all other teams in the state because one section of the state was a hot spot for the virus? There's a reason South Florida was a hot spot; many people in that area did not heed warnings concerning the virus and large parties in the streets and on the beaches were featured in newspapers across the country, especially around Memorial Day. The kids are now suffering because their area was not diligent in dealing with the virus. Then, we had teams like Northwestern that flagrantly disobeyed restrictions placed on organized practices. Were they the only ones? I seriously doubt that. Still, the FHSAA offered them a chance to opt in to the playoffs: no team was discriminated against in any way. I understand that South Florida teams won 7 championships last year; maybe this year when all teams are required to play under the same rules, the results will be different. I was rooting for Maris during that Mantle/Maris run at the HR record.

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48 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

The kids in South Florida are missing out on the playoffs and that's a shame. Should we penalize all other teams in the state because one section of the state was a hot spot for the virus? There's a reason South Florida was a hot spot; many people in that area did not heed warnings concerning the virus and large parties in the streets and on the beaches were featured in newspapers across the country, especially around Memorial Day. The kids are now suffering because their area was not diligent in dealing with the virus. Then, we had teams like Northwestern that flagrantly disobeyed restrictions placed on organized practices. Were they the only ones? I seriously doubt that. Still, the FHSAA offered them a chance to opt in to the playoffs: no team was discriminated against in any way. I understand that South Florida teams won 7 championships last year; maybe this year when all teams are required to play under the same rules, the results will be different. I was rooting for Maris during that Mantle/Maris run at the HR record.

South Florida was also a hot spot because alot of people from out of state, especially New York went to that area

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21 minutes ago, KeemD321 said:

South Florida was also a hot spot because alot of people from out of state, especially New York went to that area

That's true. Why didn't local authorities enforce the 14 day quarantine for all people coming in from NY? They wanted the money those tourists were going to spend. If they had closed the beaches and stopped the street parties, it may have discouraged NYers from coming. South Florida is a vacation haven for people from NYC, and sadly those visitors brought the virus with them. Does that mean that kids from around the other areas of the state of Florida should do without HS football or state championship playoffs? Did local authorities shut down protests in South Florida or did they look the other way as they did here in Orlando? We had mask and social distance requirements for everyone in Orlando except for protesters. I guess they had some special type of immunity to the virus.

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What pisses me off about this is how come Miami  central and Miami northwestern is able to opt in But Dillard cannot.

BCAA decided to follow west palm and opt out but what does that have to do with schools individually?? About 95% of Miami schools opted out but a few opted in. And if that’s allowed then dillard should have been allowed to opt in to smh.

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