Who y’all got in 8a rankings

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, Cjm04 said:

Palm Beach Central and Wellington will surprise a lot of people this year.

Do either of them have any ranked teams on their schedule to gauge how they stack up against the better competition?

[Jullian]

2 hours ago, Cjm04 said:

Palm Beach Central and Wellington will surprise a lot of people this year.

How bout PBL? 

[Jullian]

Out of all the classifications, I think 8a, from all regions 1-4, is the most competitive of all classifications. The playoffs will be insane. There could b 8+ Legitimate Teams in the running for a state championship. 

[Jags904]

On 7/21/2021 at 10:12 AM, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Do they actually have a QB now because I remember in the spring game I think they used a RB/WR at QB? 

 

Also any idea how the teams in St John's county looking at this stage 

Ponte Vedra should be a good team this year. They’ve got some talent and a proven coach has been hired. Creekside should be solid but the loss of the QB is tough and they’re in a tough district. I haven’t heard much about St Augustine or Nease but I expect St Augustine to be pretty good. 

[FBGUY1989]

On 7/19/2021 at 2:35 PM, PinellasFB said:

I think 8A is pretty much going to be between the Orlando teams and Dade/Broward county, with Venice added to the mix.  I've always wondered why the I-4 corridor is so loaded with crazy talent but Tampa Bay teams seem to drop off significantly.  Maybe there are just too many high schools in Pinellas and Hillsborough counties, spreading the talent over too many schools?

What's your opinion in Plant high school 

[PinellasFB]

On 8/5/2021 at 5:19 PM, FBGUY1989 said:

What's your opinion in Plant high school 

Plant HS program face planted two years ago when they didnt get their transfers in to replenish the OL and they had a D1 QB but no line and they just imploded.  To make matters worse, their coach got suspended for most of the season.  The program officially collapsed in 2020 and the program was in full downward spiral mode.  I had never seen Plant HS with a line that tiny.  Their coach is now OC at U. of Toledo, reunited with his HS QB.  I dont think they can come back from this any time soon.

[Jullian]

10 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

Plant HS program face planted two years ago when they didnt get their transfers in to replenish the OL and they had a D1 QB but no line and they just imploded.  To make matters worse, their coach got suspended for most of the season.  The program officially collapsed in 2020 and the program was in full downward spiral mode.  I had never seen Plant HS with a line that tiny.  Their coach is now OC at U. of Toledo, reunited with his HS QB.  I dont think they can come back from this any time soon.

After all those great teams, I’ve never seen a program collapse to that degree........

[DarterBlue2]

1 hour ago, Jullian said:

After all those great teams, I’ve never seen a program collapse to that degree........

Edgewater and Manatee have done the same from time to time. Edgewater, of course, if fine now, but before the current staff took over they had fallen on hard times. It is the exceptional program that never has periodic collapses. 

[Jullian]

14 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Edgewater and Manatee have done the same from time to time. Edgewater, of course, if fine now, but before the current staff took over they had fallen on hard times. It is the exceptional program that never has periodic collapses. 

Yep 2 good examples. Manatee still not there but looks like going in the right direction. 

[Perspective]

11 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

Plant HS program face planted two years ago when they didnt get their transfers in to replenish the OL and they had a D1 QB but no line and they just imploded.  To make matters worse, their coach got suspended for most of the season.  The program officially collapsed in 2020 and the program was in full downward spiral mode.  I had never seen Plant HS with a line that tiny.  Their coach is now OC at U. of Toledo, reunited with his HS QB.  I dont think they can come back from this any time soon.

Some of this is true; some is not.  Allow me to provide some context (WARNING:  Long Post alert):

Prior to the 2019 season, Plant had a 14-year span (from 2005 to 2018) in which they won four state championships, never won less than 9 games (and won ten or more games 12 times), and went 58-0 in district games.  Yep, 58 wins and zero losses. 

2019 broke several streaks, including their district winning streak, their playoff streak and their season winning record streak.  They finished the season 4-6.  Plant's six losses came against their first six opponents:  (1) Armwood, who finished the season 12-2 (only losses were a 2OT loss to North Gwinnett (GA) and a 4th round playoff loss to Edgewater); (2) Gaither, who also finished 12-2 (only losses were to Armwood in the regular season and a 4th round playoff loss on the road against Escambia); (3) Steinbrenner, another team that finished 12-2 (4th round playoff loss to Apopka); (4) Bloomingdale, who finished 9-3 (only losses were to Lakeland and Armwood, once in the regular season and again in the playoffs); (5)Tampa Bay Tech, who finished 8-4 (with losses to Armwood, Gaither, Bloomingdale and Lakeland in the playoffs); and (6) Gonzaga (MD) (nationally ranked at the time, but finished their season 8-3).  If you take away the out-of-state schools and losses to each other, this group of teams had a combined record of 53-6 in 2019.

Plant finished the 2019 season with four straight wins, including three district wins, to finish second in the district.   In those four wins, Plant outscored their opponents by a combined 164-20.  In any one of the prior 15 plus years (when Plant won their district), their runner-up district status would have gained them a playoff spot.  However, 2019 was the first year that the FHSAA relied on a power rankings point system to determine the four non-district winner playoff spots and Plant lost out on the final playoff spot by the narrowest of margins when Steinbrenner lost their season finale to Chamberlain 26-20 (thus, slightly lowering Plant's "opponents record").    To my knowledge, they were the only team in the state not to win a state championship, but nevertheless finish their season with four straight wins.   In all likelihood, they wouldn't have made a lot of noise in the playoffs, but they did have some momentum and had figured out how to play to their strengths.  They would not have been an easy win for any team at that point. 

Head coach Robert Weiner did serve a three-game suspension in the middle of the 2019 season for an alleged FHSAA rules violation.  He was accused with providing benefits to a player when he asked his director of operations to see if she could help a kid who was new to the football program, but nevertheless registered at Plant, find a place to spend the night when it became apparent late one afternoon that the kid was otherwise not going to have anywhere to sleep that night.  Ultimately, through the FHSAA appeals process, the "conviction" was overturned, the fine was rescinded and Coach Weiner's clean record was restored.   However, unlike professional sports (where you can continue to play or manage while an appeal is pending), Coach Weiner was forced to serve his 3-game suspension before the appeal could be heard.  When your head coach is also your offensive coordinator/QB coach and play-caller, this can be a problem. 

In short, Plant lost to six quality opponents, but finished the year strong, just missing out on the final playoff spot in the region.  PinellasFB is correct that Plant's offensive line was not on par with previous seasons, in part because of early-season injuries and lack of depth. 

After the season ended, Coach Weiner accepted a college coaching job with the University of Toledo.  Plant's QB signed with Georgia Tech (but has since transferred to Toledo).  The Plant administration went through a laborious process to find a new head coach.   In an effort to do everything the right way, and perhaps not understanding the new wild, wild west of high school football, the school took its time accepting applications, interviewing prospective candidates, narrowing down the field, etc.  They eventually settled on a man who had played and coached at the college level and who had previously been the Plant JV coach.  In hindsight, it was not the right hire.  However, in both Plant's defense and the coach's defense, no one could have anticipated the chain of events that would transpire for this person, professionally and personally. 

In the meantime, after Coach Weiner announced his departure and before the new coach could be named, a number of Plant's top players, unsure of what the future would bring, decided to do the 'Hallendale Bail,' two years before Hallendale did it.    Some did it on their own; others were, to use polite terms, 'encouraged' by 'representatives of other school's athletic interests' to transfer.    Area coaches smelled blood in the water and used every opportunity and resource they could to reach out to top Plant players and their parents.   Before the school year ended, Plant lost at least eight players who had played significant time in the 2019 season and/or who were expected to contribute significantly the following season, including two top receivers, the expected QB1 and the expected QB2, a starting RB/LB, a starting DB and two OL/DL starters.  At the time, four of them had D1 offers and another has since picked up at least one D1 offer. 

2020 was a disastrous year for Plant.  First year without their old head coach, first year with a new coach who was not on campus, Covid restrictions, no returning varsity QB (and very little chance for anyone to earn the spot with limited 7 on 7 games/tournaments), etc.   There were a number of additional factors that led to the downfall, but a lack of incoming new talent over the past couple of years definitely was a major contributor.  Plant finished 2-6 last season, but did make the playoffs (yeah, only because every team 'made the playoffs.'  ). 

Once again, Plant has a new head coach:  former assistant coach Hank Brown.  Coach Brown will surround himself with others that have been around the program in hopes of restoring its glory days.  It won't surprise me if Plant has a better record this year than last, but in large part, that will be because of the way that Hillsborough County does its scheduling.   For non-district games, Plant won't be playing the 'top tier' teams like Armwood, Gaither, Steinbrenner and Bloomingdale.  But, they'll still have a number of tough games and will be lucky to finish the season with a .500 record. 

In short, Plant's success cycle likely is over, at least for a while.  So, in short answer to the original question, Plant will not be a factor this season (or anytime soon) in the playoffs.   It's possible they could make the playoffs and it's possible they could win their first playoff game, but that's as far as I see them going unless and until more talent shows up.  Oh, and here's the catch:  Plant is an A-rated school that has been over-capacity for years.  So, unlike some of the other 'football-oriented schools' in the county (or across the state), a kid cannot choose to attend Plant unless they live in the Plant district.  That will make it even harder to regain their status as one of the top programs in the county, if not the state. 

But, it was a helluva run while it lasted. 

 

[fishspinners]

21 minutes ago, Perspective said:

But, it was a helluva run while it lasted. 

It sure was.

[fishspinners]

47 minutes ago, Jullian said:

Yep 2 good examples. Manatee still not there but looks like going in the right direction. 

Manatee should be solid, but a return to glory isn't likely as long as Coach Marino is keeping the stars north of the river home at Palmetto. Most of Manatee's great teams had alot of Palmetto kids on the roster. Coach Marino has done a great job at keeping the local talent home the last five years or so.

[Ray Icaza]

Still think Sarasota Riverview will make some noise in 8A as they feel they could have been a finalist last year and return a strong roster.  The kid that split time with Browne (QB)  who transferred to Venice may have well been projected to start this year (Will Evans).  Obviously, will come down to them and Venice in their district but as I mentioned previously an early indicator will be their opener against Sanford Seminole here in central FL.  Definitely would not overlook them to surprise some people.

[fishspinners]

19 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Still think Sarasota Riverview will make some noise in 8A as they feel they could have been a finalist last year and return a strong roster.  The kid that split time with Browne (QB)  who transferred to Venice may have well been projected to start this year (Will Evans).  Obviously, will come down to them and Venice in their district but as I mentioned previously an early indicator will be their opener against Sanford Seminole here in central FL.  Definitely would not overlook them to surprise some people.

Things are set up for them to make a nice run if they can find a way to get past Venice. That's a big IF, but I could see them making it as far as the region finals against Osceola, West Orange, or Dr. Phillips.

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, fishspinners said:

Things are set up for them to make a nice run if they can find a way to get past Venice. That's a big IF, but I could see them making it as far as the region finals against Osceola, West Orange, or Dr. Phillips.

Venice will definitely be a challenge for any of the teams in the mix.  I did read that the Borchers kid (QB) out of IMG just transferred into Riverview as well as them getting 2 out of state kids 6'4" that will also compete for the QB spot with Will Evans who shared time with Browne last year.  That probably is the best explanation of why Browne left and went to Venice as opposed to the coaching theory which I disagreed with.   Sounds like a good problem to have.

[Tony112]

3 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Still think Sarasota Riverview will make some noise in 8A as they feel they could have been a finalist last year and return a strong roster.  The kid that split time with Browne (QB)  who transferred to Venice may have well been projected to start this year (Will Evans).  Obviously, will come down to them and Venice in their district but as I mentioned previously an early indicator will be their opener against Sanford Seminole here in central FL.  Definitely would not overlook them to surprise some people.

Riverview is not that good they have a couple good pieces but who are they beating they not beating no Venice that’s a blowout just like last year it might be even worst this year Venice has one the best teams in the state and one of the best teams they ever had 

[PinellasFB]

6 hours ago, Perspective said:

Some of this is true; some is not.  Allow me to provide some context (WARNING:  Long Post alert):

Prior to the 2019 season, Plant had a 14-year span (from 2005 to 2018) in which they won four state championships, never won less than 9 games (and won ten or more games 12 times), and went 58-0 in district games.  Yep, 58 wins and zero losses. 

2019 broke several streaks, including their district winning streak, their playoff streak and their season winning record streak.  They finished the season 4-6.  Plant's six losses came against their first six opponents:  (1) Armwood, who finished the season 12-2 (only losses were a 2OT loss to North Gwinnett (GA) and a 4th round playoff loss to Edgewater); (2) Gaither, who also finished 12-2 (only losses were to Armwood in the regular season and a 4th round playoff loss on the road against Escambia); (3) Steinbrenner, another team that finished 12-2 (4th round playoff loss to Apopka); (4) Bloomingdale, who finished 9-3 (only losses were to Lakeland and Armwood, once in the regular season and again in the playoffs); (5)Tampa Bay Tech, who finished 8-4 (with losses to Armwood, Gaither, Bloomingdale and Lakeland in the playoffs); and (6) Gonzaga (MD) (nationally ranked at the time, but finished their season 8-3).  If you take away the out-of-state schools and losses to each other, this group of teams had a combined record of 53-6 in 2019.

Plant finished the 2019 season with four straight wins, including three district wins, to finish second in the district.   In those four wins, Plant outscored their opponents by a combined 164-20.  In any one of the prior 15 plus years (when Plant won their district), their runner-up district status would have gained them a playoff spot.  However, 2019 was the first year that the FHSAA relied on a power rankings point system to determine the four non-district winner playoff spots and Plant lost out on the final playoff spot by the narrowest of margins when Steinbrenner lost their season finale to Chamberlain 26-20 (thus, slightly lowering Plant's "opponents record").    To my knowledge, they were the only team in the state not to win a state championship, but nevertheless finish their season with four straight wins.   In all likelihood, they wouldn't have made a lot of noise in the playoffs, but they did have some momentum and had figured out how to play to their strengths.  They would not have been an easy win for any team at that point. 

Head coach Robert Weiner did serve a three-game suspension in the middle of the 2019 season for an alleged FHSAA rules violation.  He was accused with providing benefits to a player when he asked his director of operations to see if she could help a kid who was new to the football program, but nevertheless registered at Plant, find a place to spend the night when it became apparent late one afternoon that the kid was otherwise not going to have anywhere to sleep that night.  Ultimately, through the FHSAA appeals process, the "conviction" was overturned, the fine was rescinded and Coach Weiner's clean record was restored.   However, unlike professional sports (where you can continue to play or manage while an appeal is pending), Coach Weiner was forced to serve his 3-game suspension before the appeal could be heard.  When your head coach is also your offensive coordinator/QB coach and play-caller, this can be a problem. 

In short, Plant lost to six quality opponents, but finished the year strong, just missing out on the final playoff spot in the region.  PinellasFB is correct that Plant's offensive line was not on par with previous seasons, in part because of early-season injuries and lack of depth. 

After the season ended, Coach Weiner accepted a college coaching job with the University of Toledo.  Plant's QB signed with Georgia Tech (but has since transferred to Toledo).  The Plant administration went through a laborious process to find a new head coach.   In an effort to do everything the right way, and perhaps not understanding the new wild, wild west of high school football, the school took its time accepting applications, interviewing prospective candidates, narrowing down the field, etc.  They eventually settled on a man who had played and coached at the college level and who had previously been the Plant JV coach.  In hindsight, it was not the right hire.  However, in both Plant's defense and the coach's defense, no one could have anticipated the chain of events that would transpire for this person, professionally and personally. 

In the meantime, after Coach Weiner announced his departure and before the new coach could be named, a number of Plant's top players, unsure of what the future would bring, decided to do the 'Hallendale Bail,' two years before Hallendale did it.    Some did it on their own; others were, to use polite terms, 'encouraged' by 'representatives of other school's athletic interests' to transfer.    Area coaches smelled blood in the water and used every opportunity and resource they could to reach out to top Plant players and their parents.   Before the school year ended, Plant lost at least eight players who had played significant time in the 2019 season and/or who were expected to contribute significantly the following season, including two top receivers, the expected QB1 and the expected QB2, a starting RB/LB, a starting DB and two OL/DL starters.  At the time, four of them had D1 offers and another has since picked up at least one D1 offer. 

2020 was a disastrous year for Plant.  First year without their old head coach, first year with a new coach who was not on campus, Covid restrictions, no returning varsity QB (and very little chance for anyone to earn the spot with limited 7 on 7 games/tournaments), etc.   There were a number of additional factors that led to the downfall, but a lack of incoming new talent over the past couple of years definitely was a major contributor.  Plant finished 2-6 last season, but did make the playoffs (yeah, only because every team 'made the playoffs.'  ). 

Once again, Plant has a new head coach:  former assistant coach Hank Brown.  Coach Brown will surround himself with others that have been around the program in hopes of restoring its glory days.  It won't surprise me if Plant has a better record this year than last, but in large part, that will be because of the way that Hillsborough County does its scheduling.   For non-district games, Plant won't be playing the 'top tier' teams like Armwood, Gaither, Steinbrenner and Bloomingdale.  But, they'll still have a number of tough games and will be lucky to finish the season with a .500 record. 

In short, Plant's success cycle likely is over, at least for a while.  So, in short answer to the original question, Plant will not be a factor this season (or anytime soon) in the playoffs.   It's possible they could make the playoffs and it's possible they could win their first playoff game, but that's as far as I see them going unless and until more talent shows up.  Oh, and here's the catch:  Plant is an A-rated school that has been over-capacity for years.  So, unlike some of the other 'football-oriented schools' in the county (or across the state), a kid cannot choose to attend Plant unless they live in the Plant district.  That will make it even harder to regain their status as one of the top programs in the county, if not the state. 

But, it was a helluva run while it lasted. 

 

Hey thanks for that insider info.  Very interesting.  Yeah I was going from memory and probably got some details wrong so it was nice to have the correct information out there.  I knew the QBs dad so I got some insider info on the 2019 OL injuries/problems where they were starting JV players on the OL by the end of the season.  

[Tony112]

38 minutes ago, Tony112 said:

Riverview is not that good they have a couple good pieces but who are they beating they not beating no Venice that’s a blowout just like last year it might be even worst this year Venice has one the best teams in the state and one of the best teams they ever had 

And riverview have ok coaching it’s not all that they dnt have a real identity of what they want to do on offense or defense 

[Perspective]

8 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:

Hey thanks for that insider info.  Very interesting.  Yeah I was going from memory and probably got some details wrong so it was nice to have the correct information out there.  I knew the QBs dad so I got some insider info on the 2019 OL injuries/problems where they were starting JV players on the OL by the end of the season.  

Jim's a great guy and Tucker did a fantastic job his senior year given the relative talent (or lack thereof) around him.   GaTech turned out to be less than a perfect fit, especially when the Yellow Jackets brought in Jeff Sims (QB out of Jacksonville) late in the game after supposedly shutting down their QB recruitment.   When Sims got the starting nod (as a fellow freshman), I had a feeling Tucker might move on.  It's one thing when you have to back up a player for a couple of years waiting on them to graduate before you get your turn.  But I don't begrudge a kid for not wanting to be QB2 for 4 years (secretly hoping QB1 leaves early or gets hurt).  I suspect he'll play the back-up roll this year at Toledo, adjusting to yet another new system, but he stands a good chance to be a 2-3 year starter in the future (if he takes advantage of the extra Covid year of eligibility). 

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, Tony112 said:

Riverview is not that good they have a couple good pieces but who are they beating they not beating no Venice that’s a blowout just like last year it might be even worst this year Venice has one the best teams in the state and one of the best teams they ever had 

Good to have confidence and I am not predicting that Riverview will win the game, just that it might turn out tougher that expected.   You are right, Venice won handily last year; see that you didn't mention Riverview beat them the year prior.

[Tony112]

31 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Good to have confidence and I am not predicting that Riverview will win the game, just that it might turn out tougher that expected.   You are right, Venice won handily last year; see that you didn't mention Riverview beat them the year prior.

Lol you trying to act like riverview a good team and they not but you see and I no this because my little cousin is one best players on that riverview team but you see 

[Tony112]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

Good to have confidence and I am not predicting that Riverview will win the game, just that it might turn out tougher that expected.   You are right, Venice won handily last year; see that you didn't mention Riverview beat them the year prior.

Riverview dnt have the pieces to be real but  I wish them the best on there season I hope they ball next week 

[Ray Icaza]

3 minutes ago, Tony112 said:

Riverview dnt have the pieces to be real but  I wish them the best on there season I hope they ball next week 

Confused because your statement was that Riverview is not a good team, but your cousin one of their best players.  If that's the case, why doesn't he transfer to Venice if his uncle is telling him they gonna get blown out.

[Jullian]

1 hour ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Playing Riverview late in the season could turn out to be a curse for Venice. They have a lot of returning starters, and they will be playing with extreme emotion due to the transfers of Hayes and Browne. I only hope both teams can manage to come into that game undefeated, but Riverview starts out with severe challenges against Seminole, Palmetto, and Lake Gibson. On top of this, Venice could very well drop that first game to Cardinals Gibbons as well. We’ll see. 

You have 2 advantages vs Cardinal Gibbons. 1) road trip to NW (super tough opp). Dont know if Chiefs have a KOC yet. 2) Home opener vs the Chiefs.  

[Tony112]

15 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Confused because your statement was that Riverview is not a good team, but your cousin one of their best players.  If that's the case, why doesn't he transfer to Venice if his uncle is telling him they gonna get blown out.

That’s up to him and his dad I dnt get in to that but him and his dad know that they not good they even said that but he just a sophomore anyway so you never know