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Joshua Wilson

Updated Districts and Regions for football

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Mainland is big enough to be 7a but no Daytona teams in 7a so that probably why 8a why they appealed for

 

Yes - that's what was reported in the story that was linked earlier. District travel in 7A would have been way too much for the school. 

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Let me make a quick note regarding Mainland using information from the story that was linked in this thread earlier: 

 

Mainland is currently in 6A based on old enrollment numbers. They currently have enough students to play in 7A and would like to move up since they know they will be moving up in 2019 so they said "hey, why not just do it now."

 

So they sought to be moved to 7A, based on their enrollment numbers, but they quickly realized district travel would be a nightmare since there were no local teams within a short drive from them.

 

So they then looked at 8A and said "yeah we can compete here and the district travel would be very manageable" so they then decided to appeal to be moved to 8A. 

 

And, yes, teams have done this in the past. Teams have requested to be moved to a different classification because of district travel pains. 

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From what I've seen over the years, moving up in classification is typically approved.  Its when asking to be moved down that gets blow back.  I believe the rule is, or was, if the student count changed was less than 10% you can stay in the same class without having to move up provided travel or some other hardship is shown.  

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Josh if these complaints were just from this year I might agree with you but this has been echoed year after year. They stick their head in the sand and do nothing. They basically revamped the entire system because a bunch of small private schools weren't happy. Do you know how long it took public schools to get the Rural division??? Years and years of complaining and finally they do something. But in 1 year of a bunch of new private schools that may not even be around in 10 years all go independent the FHSAA revamps the entire playoff system lure them back in the fold.

 

This hasn't just been one year...its been an issue since 1A rural was created. Yes as much I love 1A rural, I do think 1A rural triggered some of the issues with the smaller independents who wanted a fair shake like 1A rural got. Is that asking for too much?

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This hasn't just been one year...its been an issue since 1A rural was created. Yes as much I love 1A rural, I do think 1A rural triggered some of the issues with the smaller independents who wanted a fair shake like 1A rural got. Is that asking for too much?

I think you could put the small rural private schools like Aucilla, RF Munroe,etc in with 1A they can compete with most 1A schools and will have some strong years.  The problem was always small urban private schools like Jax University Christian and North Fla Christian for example that could totally dominate because of their ability to cherry pick from a large population. I personally think all that ever really needed to be done was some tweeking to the classifications and not totally revamping the system.  That being said my youngest son is a junior this year so I will not be that invested in high school ball after next season.  I just hate to see it screwed up but generally the best team wins so I guess it will always work out in the end.

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John Carroll is actually pretty smart to move up. They can keep their traditional rivalry with MCC and play more local teams. Hope it works out well for the Rams.

 

I think they will be granted a move up because they beat PSL high already 35-0 and FP Westwood is on their level.

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Gatorman, can you just give the system a chance to play itself out for these first two years? FHSAA has already said once the first two years are done they will revisit and see if any changes are needing to be made. This thing you want with promotion and relegation might look good on paper, but just highly unrealistic because then you got to consider geographical issues as well and if you got more bad teams moving down in one area than another you get a major imbalance. Plus I have yet to see a state association do something like this. Every state assigns schools based enrollments not based on team sizes. My thing is if you are tired of your school losing, change the culture, do things that can make you a winner. Complaining gets no one anywhere and then you wonder why kids do leave for other programs. 

 

Joshua,

 

The system has been proposed for several reasons over the past year+...

1) Not all Games mattered during the Regular Season

2) Lack of Competitiveness in Early Rounds of playoffs

3) Complaints of "losing" teams making the playoffs

4) Constant complaints about being in certain districts

5) We don't have "Big" Games during the season.

 

My problem with changing the system is that the new system doesn't do much for numbers 2-5. We now will have #1 vs #8 in the playoffs that will not help competitiveness. #2 vs #7 will not help competitiveness. 

 

Losing teams make the playoffs because we have too many classifications, shrink the classifications, or simply shrink the number of districts per region by 1 and most of the problems would have been fixed.

 

Constant complaints exist about being in certain districts because people don't want to face teams they feel they have a competitive disadvantage with. While my idea of promotion/relegation is unprecedented, it solves the problem. This system (even with no districts for every classification), still means that you face a team in the playoff that dominates you.

 

Finally, the old system did not punish somebody from playing "big" games. The new system actually makes rivalry games less likely to continue as they could cost you a playoff spot if they are poor. The system doesn't reward you for playing a 10-0 team because if you lose, you could have earned more points playing a 0-10. 

---------------------------

 

As for problems with relegation/promotion due to geography, we already have that issue. Teams in the Panhandle and areas outside of big Urban areas already have long travels. Jacksonville schools have traveled down the coast to Daytona and Deland in the past. Teams in North Central Florida have traveled from Gainesville to Tallahassee in the past. 

 

---------------------------

 

As for the argument, make your team better.... Isn't that what should have been said to the Independents schools who fled from 2A and 3A?

 

While it would be unprecedented, California has created an Open Division (article is about basketball). So the idea of good teams playing good teams (not based on enrollment) is out there.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/high-school/california/post/_/id/1386/five-questions-cif-basketball-open-division

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If it were up to me, I'd deny John Carroll the move up to 5A. Look, I know budgets might be tight but come on, you can get five games on the schedule that are about one hour away -- Holy Trinity, MCC, Oxbridge, Newman, King's -- within your region.

 

So that's five games right there. Ask PSL & Westwood to add you to their non-district schedules and that would give you seven.

 

You could then contact your other regional members (Taylor, Father Lopez, First Academy, Trinity Prep) and tell them you will only play them if the game is at JC.

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If it were up to me, I'd deny John Carroll the move up to 5A. Look, I know budgets might be tight but come on, you can get five games on the schedule that are about one hour away -- Holy Trinity, MCC, Oxbridge, Newman, King's -- within your region.

 

So that's five games right there. Ask PSL & Westwood to add you to their non-district schedules and that would give you seven.

 

You could then contact your other regional members (Taylor, Father Lopez, First Academy, Trinity Prep) and tell them you will only play them if the game is at JC.

They just wanna play district games against them

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If it were up to me, I'd deny John Carroll the move up to 5A. Look, I know budgets might be tight but come on, you can get five games on the schedule that are about one hour away -- Holy Trinity, MCC, Oxbridge, Newman, King's -- within your region.

 

So that's five games right there. Ask PSL & Westwood to add you to their non-district schedules and that would give you seven.

 

You could then contact your other regional members (Taylor, Father Lopez, First Academy, Trinity Prep) and tell them you will only play them if the game is at JC.

 

They could play st eds. They could compete with centennial as well. Not to mention Jensen beach and okeechobee. This is most definitely a pull to get a better play off chance.

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I think you could put the small rural private schools like Aucilla, RF Munroe,etc in with 1A they can compete with most 1A schools and will have some strong years.  The problem was always small urban private schools like Jax University Christian and North Fla Christian for example that could totally dominate because of their ability to cherry pick from a large population. I personally think all that ever really needed to be done was some tweeking to the classifications and not totally revamping the system.  That being said my youngest son is a junior this year so I will not be that invested in high school ball after next season.  I just hate to see it screwed up but generally the best team wins so I guess it will always work out in the end.

Munroe, Aucilla, and other teams of their ability levels can compete with 1A only very, very rarely. Aucilla lost this season to Franklin County for example, and to Branford by 33 points... and Aucilla won way more than they lost against Independents. (6-2).  Both of those school have less than 100 kids in HS and it's not uncommon for 7th and 8th graders to be starters - they're not going to have a chance against schools with 3 to 6 times their HS populations very often.

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Munroe, Aucilla, and other teams of their ability levels can compete with 1A only very, very rarely. Aucilla lost this season to Franklin County for example, and to Branford by 33 points... and Aucilla won way more than they lost against Independents. (6-2).  Both of those school have less than 100 kids in HS and it's not uncommon for 7th and 8th graders to be starters - they're not going to have a chance against schools with 3 to 6 times their HS populations very often.

They may be down but all 1A schools have down years, I have seen when both af those teams have been very good. Also Franklin had some really good athletes this year and should have won 4 or 5 games with decent coaching. As for 7th and 8th graders most 1A schools in our area have some playing. I understand where you are coming from but they will fare better against Sneads and Cottondale than Univ. Christian and NFC.

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Joshua,

 

The system has been proposed for several reasons over the past year+...

1) Not all Games mattered during the Regular Season

2) Lack of Competitiveness in Early Rounds of playoffs

3) Complaints of "losing" teams making the playoffs

4) Constant complaints about being in certain districts

5) We don't have "Big" Games during the season.

 

My problem with changing the system is that the new system doesn't do much for numbers 2-5. We now will have #1 vs #8 in the playoffs that will not help competitiveness. #2 vs #7 will not help competitiveness. 

 

Losing teams make the playoffs because we have too many classifications, shrink the classifications, or simply shrink the number of districts per region by 1 and most of the problems would have been fixed.

 

Constant complaints exist about being in certain districts because people don't want to face teams they feel they have a competitive disadvantage with. While my idea of promotion/relegation is unprecedented, it solves the problem. This system (even with no districts for every classification), still means that you face a team in the playoff that dominates you.

 

Finally, the old system did not punish somebody from playing "big" games. The new system actually makes rivalry games less likely to continue as they could cost you a playoff spot if they are poor. The system doesn't reward you for playing a 10-0 team because if you lose, you could have earned more points playing a 0-10. 

---------------------------

 

As for problems with relegation/promotion due to geography, we already have that issue. Teams in the Panhandle and areas outside of big Urban areas already have long travels. Jacksonville schools have traveled down the coast to Daytona and Deland in the past. Teams in North Central Florida have traveled from Gainesville to Tallahassee in the past. 

 

---------------------------

 

As for the argument, make your team better.... Isn't that what should have been said to the Independents schools who fled from 2A and 3A?

 

While it would be unprecedented, California has created an Open Division (article is about basketball). So the idea of good teams playing good teams (not based on enrollment) is out there.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/high-school/california/post/_/id/1386/five-questions-cif-basketball-open-division

 

Gatorman...I hear you on some of that...but one thing I want to respond to quickly on this about an open division. I have suggested to the FHSAA to add a 9th playoff bracket that would be an open division. Not adding another class, just adding a 9th playoff bracket. Teams from 3A-8A could be pulled from their brackets and placed into this open bracket based upon the number of times they have been to state championship/state semifinal/regional final or etc on rules. I think it would jolt the playoffs even more. 

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Gatorman...I hear you on some of that...but one thing I want to respond to quickly on this about an open division. I have suggested to the FHSAA to add a 9th playoff bracket that would be an open division. Not adding another class, just adding a 9th playoff bracket. Teams from 3A-8A could be pulled from their brackets and placed into this open bracket based upon the number of times they have been to state championship/state semifinal/regional final or etc on rules. I think it would jolt the playoffs even more.

So like STA AHP BTW TCA ect?

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Let me make a quick note regarding Mainland using information from the story that was linked in this thread earlier: 

 

Mainland is currently in 6A based on old enrollment numbers. They currently have enough students to play in 7A and would like to move up since they know they will be moving up in 2019 so they said "hey, why not just do it now."

 

So they sought to be moved to 7A, based on their enrollment numbers, but they quickly realized district travel would be a nightmare since there were no local teams within a short drive from them.

 

So they then looked at 8A and said "yeah we can compete here and the district travel would be very manageable" so they then decided to appeal to be moved to 8A. 

 

And, yes, teams have done this in the past. Teams have requested to be moved to a different classification because of district travel pains.

 

8A,D-1: 1) Flagler Palm Coast plays Mainland regularly- 25 miles away

2) Deland plays Mainland yearly, for ever - 20 miles away

3) Spruce Creek plays Mainland regularly - 7 miles away

This is a no brainer over 7A. Also better area early playoff competition: Apopka, Dr Phillips, Osceola, etc. The Bucs aren't ducking Dade or STA. They don't run scared. It's a smart move. Call them up Miami, regular season home and home sounds good to this FAN.

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8A,D-1: 1) Flagler Palm Coast plays Mainland regularly- 25 miles away

2) Deland plays Mainland yearly, for ever - 20 miles away

3) Spruce Creek plays Mainland regularly - 7 miles away

This is a no brainer over 7A. Also better area early playoff competition: Apopka, Dr Phillips, Osceola, etc. The Bucs aren't ducking Dade or STA. They don't run scared. It's a smart move. Call them up Miami, regular season home and home sounds good to this FAN.

Looks good to me...

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