Watching some of the national games from this weekend was a stark comparison to FL HS football atmosphere

[DarterBlue2]

32 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Beat atmosphere in Hillsborough by far is Plant. They pack it and band thumps! This was during the glory days. 
 

But for some odd reason, they never travelled well to state title games. Why was that the case?

[Hwy17]

17 hours ago, SportsFan said:

Crowds have been declining for decades even before the transfer rules 

I wouldn't say decades, the last decade perhaps, at least in my area. Attendance was good up until about 10 years ago.  Transfer rules changed in 2012

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

But for some odd reason, they never travelled well to state title games. Why was that the case?

Darter, I was at 2 of the 4 state title games and never really noticed a lack of Plant fans, but it could all be a matter of perception, expectations and opinions.   That said, if memory serves me correct, the first one (2006, I believe) was played in Miami (a bit of a haul), but the other three were played in Orlando (no excuses there). 

But, the bottom line is that South Tampa folks have pretty busy social schedules and there are a lot of holiday parties to attend in mid-December.    

[Ray Icaza]

59 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

I wouldn't say decades, the last decade perhaps, at least in my area. Attendance was good up until about 10 years ago.  Transfer rules changed in 2012

With our football team, it has been decades and despite our success over the past dozen years or so we don't get nearly the crowds we would get in the mid 70's to mid 80's.  The population for our county is a bit under 400K today, while in 1980 it was only around 50K.  It has grown almost tenfold. yet the attendance at home games is maybe a quarter of what it once was when we played out at the OLD SILVER SPURS ARENA.

[Perspective]

From what I have personally witnessed over the last 20 years, high school football crowds ebb and flow like the tides.   When a team is having a great year, the crowds increase considerably.   When a team is having an off year or even a so-so year, attendance drops.  I know, I know, tell us something we don't all know Captain Obvious. 

Well, whether you want to attribute it to the open transfer rules or other things, it has become harder and harder for a school to break through with a great season (in terms of record).  As many others have pointed out, it's harder to keep a group of kids at one school unless that school already is having success.  From my perspective, you're going to continue to see a handful of teams dominate football in Florida and I'm guessing those schools will continue to have good crowds.   And all the other schools in the state (i.e., the vast majority) will continue to have low-to-average crowds. 

Bottom line and generally speaking, kids go the games when it becomes the 'cool' thing to do on Friday nights and all their friends want to go to the games, as well.  Same with adults (other than player parents who are going to show up now matter what, for the most part).  In smaller towns across the country, attending high school football games is simply part of the culture and a major part of the social fabric of the town.  Not so much so in the bigger cities.  

[SportsFan]

2 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

I wouldn't say decades, the last decade perhaps, at least in my area. Attendance was good up until about 10 years ago.  Transfer rules changed in 2012

Some areas were declining significantly longer than that even at long time successful programs

[PinellasFB]

4 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

Beat atmosphere in Hillsborough by far is Plant. They pack it and band thumps! This was during the glory days. 
 

Steinbrenner has a good atmosphere too with a crazy good band and nice field.  In Pinellas, East Lake isn't bad but their stadium sucks.  My PHU Hurricanes have strong support from the locals (compared to other Pinellas schools) despite being a traditionally downtrodden team and we have a good band but they hardly play during the games.  I don't get it? 

[DarterBlue2]

4 hours ago, Perspective said:

Darter, I was at 2 of the 4 state title games and never really noticed a lack of Plant fans, but it could all be a matter of perception, expectations and opinions.   That said, if memory serves me correct, the first one (2006, I believe) was played in Miami (a bit of a haul), but the other three were played in Orlando (no excuses there). 

But, the bottom line is that South Tampa folks have pretty busy social schedules and there are a lot of holiday parties to attend in mid-December.    

I was at 3 of the Plant state title games, 2 in Orlando and 1 in South Florida. There were certainly more Plant fans at each of these games than say Armwood fans at a typical Armwood appearance. But I have also attended two games at Plant one against the Darters and one against Dp. and Dad's was packed both times.  But Dad's is also not a huge stadium, so my "perspective" may have been affected to some degree. 

And, as you mentioned, there is the "South Tampa" holiday effect to deal with.

I did find Plant's stadium to be a very nice place to watch a high school football game. 

[Perspective]

4 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

I was at 3 of the Plant state title games, 2 in Orlando and 1 in South Florida. There were certainly more Plant fans at each of these games than say Armwood fans at a typical Armwood appearance. But I have also attended two games at Plant one against the Darters and one against Dp. and Dad's was packed both times.  But Dad's is also not a huge stadium, so my "perspective" may have been affected to some degree. 

And, as you mentioned, there is the "South Tampa" holiday effect to deal with.

I did find Plant's stadium to be a very nice place to watch a high school football game. 

I take it you were in Tampa for the 2013 playoff game when Apopka beat Plant 45-29?  There have been some magical moment in Dad's Stadium, but that was not one of them.  

[DarterBlue2]

38 minutes ago, Perspective said:

I take it you were in Tampa for the 2013 playoff game when Apopka beat Plant 45-29?  There have been some magical moment in Dad's Stadium, but that was not one of them.  

Yes, I was at that game, as well as one that Dp. lost in a tight game there. Ironically, that win over Plant may have had a small negative effect on the outcome against South Dade a week later. I believe the general feeling was that the game against Plant was the state title game .. It may have led to a little bit of complacency going into the South Dade game ...

[Longtime Observer]

Getting fans to attend sporting events in person is getting harder, as entertainment options from one's couch are abundant. Also, the bonds felt between fans and schools is diminishing. There's skepticism as to the appropriateness of what schools are teaching, which leads to less passion to support the schools. And, the common move to have more but smaller schools means that each individual school is less significant in the community. Texas is known for having gargantuan schools which occupy a significant place in the minds of community members. But, that is the exception to the rule nationally. Looking at a place like Lakeland, Florida, there are three additional football-playing schools since I came of high school age about 30 years ago. There are a couple of private schools with their own programs that were nonexistent (and unfathomable)  in the 1980s. A guy who was a starting WR and homecoming King at Lakeland High 30 years ago now has a son quarterbacking Lakeland Christian school. Suffice it to say, that family isn't going to be in Bryant Stadium on Friday nights these days...

[Jambun82]

8 hours ago, SportsFan said:

Some areas were declining significantly longer than that even at long time successful programs

SportsFan, you and I both know that you are 100% correct. However, it is hard for some people to see this with their preconceived notions. 

[THIS_IS_DILLARD]

On 8/21/2023 at 8:36 PM, Longtime Observer said:

Getting fans to attend sporting events in person is getting harder, as entertainment options from one's couch are abundant. Also, the bonds felt between fans and schools is diminishing. There's skepticism as to the appropriateness of what schools are teaching, which leads to less passion to support the schools. And, the common move to have more but smaller schools means that each individual school is less significant in the community. Texas is known for having gargantuan schools which occupy a significant place in the minds of community members. But, that is the exception to the rule nationally. Looking at a place like Lakeland, Florida, there are three additional football-playing schools since I came of high school age about 30 years ago. There are a couple of private schools with their own programs that were nonexistent (and unfathomable)  in the 1980s. A guy who was a starting WR and homecoming King at Lakeland High 30 years ago now has a son quarterbacking Lakeland Christian school. Suffice it to say, that family isn't going to be in Bryant Stadium on Friday nights these days...

Dope post & to add to this I just don’t think the passion is there anymore. As you stated with so much to do now, so much technology a Friday night football game isn’t a “shut down the city let’s go crazy affair” especially in a place like Ft. Lauderdale. 
 

& not to bring race into it but speaking from my perspective, at African American schools Such As Dillard, Ely, MNW , carol city etc if the school isn’t Very Good & playing a School that’s very Good the attendance isn’t gonna be booming.

& from my experience even when the stadium is in full capacity Most times the amount of noise/cheers don’t match the crowd capacity. 
 

most times so many people are in their phone or having side conversation’s that they don’t even know when a team scores. 

[181pl]

Depends on the teams, the hype, if there is a rivalry, what's at stake etc. Generally, Florida's atmosphere is not the same as Texas or GA. California I'm not sold on. You only see the top few teams, so who really knows. I've been to some games at Plant and Lakeland that absolutely have big time atmospheres, attendance, importance, etc. But generally speaking, no, our atmospheres are not the same. But if you look at Texas and Georgia, they are more community schools. A state full of Apopkas, Lakelands, Columbias, Nicevilles, etc etc

[nolebull813]

The Texas 6-man state title had more attendance than any of our 11-man state titles games. It’s just different in some other places. Texas is the gold standard for the total HSFB package. They have top notch stadiums, coaches, athletes, bands, cheerleaders, majorettes, concession food, weight rooms, practice facilities etc etc.

[THIS_IS_DILLARD]

10 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

The Texas 6-man state title had more attendance than any of our 11-man state titles games. It’s just different in some other places. Texas is the gold standard for the total HSFB package. They have top notch stadiums, coaches, athletes, bands, cheerleaders, majorettes, concession food, weight rooms, practice facilities etc etc.

But why is that ? A lot of people feel like Florida sets the standard in athletes & over all talent. 
 

we got the sun & beaches are attendance should be bar none. 
 

but yet it’s not. You hardly see any student sections, a lot of schools here don’t even have a band or band worth mentioning, and half the stadiums here are subpar if the school have a stadium at all. 

[PinellasFB]

On 8/21/2023 at 8:36 PM, Longtime Observer said:

Getting fans to attend sporting events in person is getting harder, as entertainment options from one's couch are abundant. Also, the bonds felt between fans and schools is diminishing. There's skepticism as to the appropriateness of what schools are teaching, which leads to less passion to support the schools. And, the common move to have more but smaller schools means that each individual school is less significant in the community. Texas is known for having gargantuan schools which occupy a significant place in the minds of community members. But, that is the exception to the rule nationally. Looking at a place like Lakeland, Florida, there are three additional football-playing schools since I came of high school age about 30 years ago. There are a couple of private schools with their own programs that were nonexistent (and unfathomable)  in the 1980s. A guy who was a starting WR and homecoming King at Lakeland High 30 years ago now has a son quarterbacking Lakeland Christian school. Suffice it to say, that family isn't going to be in Bryant Stadium on Friday nights these days...

You've identified what I believe is the key issue in Florida.  Too many schools in close proximity to each other.  It's hard for a community to get behind a school when there are dozens within a few miles radius of where they live.  No sense of community identity.  Additionally, as someone already pointed out earlier, FL is a transient state with most kids parents being born somewhere else.  Both of these add up to very weak ties to any local high schools.  

[nolebull813]

20 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:

You've identified what I believe is the key issue in Florida.  Too many schools in close proximity to each other.  It's hard for a community to get behind a school when there are dozens within a few miles radius of where they live.  No sense of community identity.  Additionally, as someone already pointed out earlier, FL is a transient state with most kids parents being born somewhere else.  Both of these add up to very weak ties to any local high schools.  

That’s true. That’s why North Florida still has a hint of a true Friday Night Light experience. Because most those towns don’t grow much, and all the people that live there are a few generations old. 

[Longtime Observer]

13 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

You've identified what I believe is the key issue in Florida.  Too many schools in close proximity to each other.  It's hard for a community to get behind a school when there are dozens within a few miles radius of where they live.  No sense of community identity.  Additionally, as someone already pointed out earlier, FL is a transient state with most kids parents being born somewhere else.  Both of these add up to very weak ties to any local high schools.  

There's been a huge push in education to have "Small learning communities". But, it never dawned on people that you could have a bunch of small learning communities on a very large campus. You just need to hire enough teachers and staff to make it work.

[Roadkill]

I think it boils down to you either have a community feel or you don't.  It would be tough for SE Florida to have a community feel or community loyalty.  North Florida communities, outside the big cities, it's what you have.  I had two daughters and in 24 years I probably did not miss 10 Niceville games at home.  I moved to N Carolina and I still listen.  The reason is Niceville is home and I want to support the teams.  I love hearing the band, I love going to the stadium and seeing the same people year after year.  I still drive back just to go to a game.  It's that fun.  If you want to have fun at a high school game go to one in Niceville, or Crestview or Ft Walton, Navarre, Baker 2A Baker.  They are all great atmospheres, and I love it.

[Nulli Secundus]

On 8/23/2023 at 9:36 PM, Longtime Observer said:

There's been a huge push in education to have "Small learning communities". But, it never dawned on people that you could have a bunch of small learning communities on a very large campus. You just need to hire enough teachers and staff to make it work.

Florida’s class size initiative

The area around Tenoroc HS has yet to materialize into the burgeoning community it was planned to support. In the meantime, it draws from all of Lakeland and part of Auburndale to fill. 
 

Meanwhile, East Polk is bursting at the seams and Polk County is trying to build another high school in Haines City. The locals are not happy with the current site selection, lol. 

[gatorman-uf]

On 8/24/2023 at 10:12 PM, Nulli Secundus said:

Florida’s class size initiative

The area around Tenoroc HS has yet to materialize into the burgeoning community it was planned to support. In the meantime, it draws from all of Lakeland and part of Auburndale to fill. 
 

Meanwhile, East Polk is bursting at the seams and Polk County is trying to build another high school in Haines City. The locals are not happy with the current site selection, lol. 

When are community members ever happy about any site selection for any building of any use?

[SportsFan]

32 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

When are community members ever happy about any site selection for any building of any use?

Most people will complain about it because every Jimmy and Joe and Bill and Ron and Burt think that they can do it better but don't actually want the responsibility of the job nor the criticism of actually holding the position so they sit back and whine about what they would do better even though they have no actual interest in doing it themselves but want to control those who do like puppets 

[CoachMacho]

Couple issues in my opinion...

 

#1 - Many parts of Florida tend to be transient areas. There's going to be less "community feel" if most of the people in the neighborhood AREN'T FROM THE AREA. There's naturally going to be less neighborhood pride. They're not vested. Shoot, certain parts of South Florida people don't even say hi to their neighbors. LOL

 

#2 - Where I'm at (South Florida) people are extremely fair-weather. If you ain't winning, they ain't going. It's that way with the college and pro teams as well. Too many other options on a Friday night. 

 

I've coached all over the state and I've witnessed some great atmospheres at Vero, Hardee and Manatee. 

[LongtimeVero]

As A Vero fan for over 50 years,  ive seen many a packed Citrus Bowl game. 9000for a game against Merrit Island in the 80s, over 10k at the state championship vs Mosley. Vero also travels very well, sometimes outdrawing the home team. With said, having been to Lakeland twice in one year, back in the 80s their crowds were awesome! A few games at the Kow-palace were fun and loud as heck (the old Silver Spurs palace), but today post Covid crowds have thinned some even for Vero. We have busses that pick up folk from Indian River Estates retirement community, but those folk like we all will are dying off. 

We used to have hundreds of band parents that would stay past halftime then leave....back when our band was 250-300 strong....Now less than half that size. Old Coach Billy Livings used to say he was "head of the Friday entertainment committee" as part of his job when he came to Vero in 1980! Its sad to see communities no longer have a vested feeling in their HS team. Vero just invested $1.5 million in a new synthetic turf...best to keep our stands full to pay for it!